Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Waterboy]

There is a massive focus change which is also why many of you are waiting on "visible" procurement news and frustrated because it is "jero bisibibility"

The MEA conflict is causing another shift focused on scale - and even countries with the latest and greatest are pivoting to how much more effective cheap swarms are even if you lost 90% of them to air defenses.

Your neighbors have been smartly focused on that at VERY VERY high gear while you are too but perhaps not that much.

Think CRPA(which you are considering) but the Indians are looking to get via Russia/Israeli and other sources which will make your past successes in spoofing rather useless so you're forced to expend kinetic elements.
In return you're investing in more last mile systems and leaving the more expensive procurements for fixed wing or higher priced threats.

These are not cheap - but your enemy is scaling both in air and sea based unmanned systems to bypass your A2/AD systems.

Think a typical fishing boat that you will ignore and the Indians have packed with explosives that comes and rams into a submarine you are about to deploy.
So much for Harbah's or Smash.

You're falling behind in certain spaces while ahead in others - but this is where it is slowly going - they are trying their best to find shoot and scoot systems in Arty which you got ahead in and made them show white flags in certain places because their CTR bty systems simply could not react fast enough EVEN WITH UAV surveillance.

So - dont be disheartened if you dont see J=35s or new vipers - the game is moving to where you should be more interested in whether some random factory in Chiniot is in reality churning out 50 suicide munitions per week.

My humble opinion is to localise Air defence especially shorad and medium range. That is more monumental then J 35 atm. Basically build missile base under mountains that can't be penetrated.

 

[RescueRanger]

My humble opinion is to localise Air defence especially shorad and medium range. That is more monumental then J 35 atm. Basically build missile base under mountains that can't be penetrated.

Do not confuse any engagement Iran and US have with an engagement between India and Pakistan.

The US is reluctant to put boots on the ground in Iran due to jero publik shuppot.

India would very much like to capture and hold territory.

Those underground missile bases with fancy cigars become useless once the enemy has taken land and held it.

 

[mythbuster]

Do not confuse any engagement Iran and US have with an engagement between India and Pakistan.

The US is reluctant to put boots on the ground in Iran due to jero publik shuppot.

India would very much like to capture and hold territory.

Those underground missile bases with fancy cigars become useless once the enemy has taken land and held it.

Ain't we going to do some tactical patakhas to hold the Indian advance?

 

[RescueRanger]

Ain't we going to do some tactical patakhas to hold the Indian advance?

The reply was to someone who is enamoured with Mozaic and tunnels, that won't work with an enemy like India who understands our terrain and is more than willing to put boots on the ground.

"Tactical phatakas" to bad ki baat hain.

Let's keep things real. Iran and US conflict isn't a war, it's some mutated nonsense with zero objectives.

India against Pakistan would be a war with clearly defined objectives and goals.

 

[TallGuy]

India against Pakistan would be a war with clearly defined objectives and goals.

How close are we to hostilities at LOC? how is information black out going? how is Pakistani maskirovka working?

that will define ops near term

mind you water issue in not resolved. see what Entity induce the neighbours to a folly?

so many things to look at?

 

[Oscar]

Can we rest assured that if it comes down to it in reality that IF warranted that Pak will eventually NEED to use those nukes if things get into uncontrolled territory and it becomes an existential threat
They will then serve their purpose hopefully

There is no “rest assured” with humans in charge.

 

[Oscar]

My humble opinion is to localise Air defence especially shorad and medium range. That is more monumental then J 35 atm. Basically build missile base under mountains that can't be penetrated.

You have missile bases dispersed across grid lines up and down Pakistan and can expand if needed.

But AD is another issue which requires building redundancies, processes and protections for systems to keep things hidden and mobile.

For a country who until 2005 had one Sa-2 site protecting Islamabad with token Crotale’s - while everything else was Manpad along with a massive heap of Inshallah - it takes time and you’re a long way from those dismal days.

Your neighbor already had layered AD at both airbases and across field formations while your best bet was two guys on a stinger or manning visual AA guns

 

[TheThirdFaculty]

There is a massive focus change which is also why many of you are waiting on "visible" procurement news and frustrated because it is "jero bisibibility"

The MEA conflict is causing another shift focused on scale - and even countries with the latest and greatest are pivoting to how much more effective cheap swarms are even if you lost 90% of them to air defenses.

Your neighbors have been smartly focused on that at VERY VERY high gear while you are too but perhaps not that much.

Think CRPA(which you are considering) but the Indians are looking to get via Russia/Israeli and other sources which will make your past successes in spoofing rather useless so you're forced to expend kinetic elements.
In return you're investing in more last mile systems and leaving the more expensive procurements for fixed wing or higher priced threats.

These are not cheap - but your enemy is scaling both in air and sea based unmanned systems to bypass your A2/AD systems.

Think a typical fishing boat that you will ignore and the Indians have packed with explosives that comes and rams into a submarine you are about to deploy.
So much for Harbah's or Smash.

You're falling behind in certain spaces while ahead in others - but this is where it is slowly going - they are trying their best to find shoot and scoot systems in Arty which you got ahead in and made them show white flags in certain places because their CTR bty systems simply could not react fast enough EVEN WITH UAV surveillance.

So - dont be disheartened if you dont see J=35s or new vipers - the game is moving to where you should be more interested in whether some random factory in Chiniot is in reality churning out 50 suicide munitions per week.

So your suggesting there’s a stalemate / statue quo ?

 

[PK781]

The problems/issues won’t go away until the enemy is taught a lasting lesson. (Both india and afg).
You have to crush their economies into dust so they can implode from within.

 

[Cipher212]

The problems/issues won’t go away until the enemy is taught a lasting lesson. (Both india and afg).
You have to crush their economies into dust so they can implode from within.

India is not going anywhere economically. It will outpace Pakistan for decades to come. Afghanistan will remain a shithole but with some crumbs from India it can be a pain in our arse as well. Not much Pakistan can do against either now. Ham khud gutter mein hay iss waqt.

Tough times ahead both for conventional forces in terms of maintaining the minimum deterrence with India and also handling nonstop insurgency from the second front, which requires a different set of tactics, equipment (thus diverging funds).

 

[Oscar]

So your suggesting there’s a stalemate / statue quo ?

I am suggesting that both sides found out how much they underestimated each other - one side more than the other in the opening 2 days of the conflict.
And how much they overestimated themselves - one side more than the other in coping with the responses of the other - so they were sweating their pants out in leadership trying to figure out their balance of escalation management.

 

[lightoftruth]

Do not confuse any engagement Iran and US have with an engagement between India and Pakistan.

The US is reluctant to put boots on the ground in Iran due to jero publik shuppot.

India would very much like to capture and hold territory.

Those underground missile bases with fancy cigars become useless once the enemy has taken land and held it.

Their is growing sentiment around that idea, but their won't be any initiation from Indian side.

Iran has shown what high volume low tech & cheap projectiles can do in a long war.

Something that is changing the procurement policies specially wrt high cost items like 5TH gen Platforms which are already vulnerable to new radars.

 

[RescueRanger]

Their is growing sentiment around that idea, but their won't be any initiation from Indian side.

A sentiment that has existed since before I was born and will remain for many many years to come. India has proven time and time again it's desire to destabilize, dehumanize and damage Pakistan directly or indirectly.

Nations should avoid playing big boy chess and focus on their own domestic problems, learn to live within their region within their orbit.

Alas that will never happen and so long as little old men with big egos exist - occupying big offices, there will always be wars.

 

[lightoftruth]

A sentiment that has existed since before I was born and will remain for many many years to come. India has proven time and time again it's desire to destabilize, dehumanize and damage Pakistan directly or indirectly.

Nations should avoid playing big boy chess and focus on their own domestic problems, learn to live within their region within their orbit.

Alas that will never happen and so long as little old men with big egos exist - occupying big offices, there will always be wars.

Not really Pakistan loving lobby mostly Punjabis & Northerners in India with their liberal leaning friends have actively promoted coexistence with concessions & initiations from Indian side for decades.

Which is reflected in constant pressure by them to start dialogue, trade, restoring IWT or even demilitarization of Siachen , they were very effective , now they have lost the plot & have little grip on the current government.

India is now purely transactional & is focused on domestic issues , thus their won't be initiation from Indian side but a heavy reaction is expected.

 

[RescueRanger]

India is now purely transactional now & is focused on domestic issues , thus their won't be initiation from Indian side but a heavy reaction is expected.

Noise from inside India suggests otherwise. Wars and bluster prove to be an effective distraction for distraught politicians desperately clinging onto power with tooth and nail.