Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Oscar]

in the previous op we were really saved by PAF which spear-headed the action and set things rolling and in our favor. PAF will always do that.

Question remains on the timid, almost-cowardly cuck behaviour of our GHQ old babas who think too much of the duniya and their accumulated worldly assets, green cards and villas and etc. They truly seem oblivious as to how the world is changing rapidy and that their dreams of western retirements may not materialize given the economic downturns in the west which are a trainwreck level now (the decline in everything), our babas have tunnel vision and still think they're living in the 80's era.
Any losses or failures will really be on the army generals and their timid, cowardly and unwillingness to escalate things.

What concerns me and most of us here is the so-called restraints, and the willingness to bow to any external phonecalls from certain countries. Same with our cowardly politicians who got no balls to escalate or take the challenge. This will be our biggest tribulation
We'll win at the end, but the cost will/may be huge, unfortunately

Why do you assume GHQ babas are the only corrupt ones? Or that PAF only competent?

From a percentage perspective it may astonish you that more PAF officers have engaged in corruption versus PA ones - and as far as competence is concerned there are plenty of PA officers who are both honest and competent - they keep it all together.

The PAF has both more immediate impact on the battlefield than PA and so the level of learning required for a baseline PAF officer is higher than PA so the selection criteria gets to be more selective - but that doesn’t mean there aren’t highly technical PA branches who were involved in May in critical aspects.

The issue is that PA has a much larger “unskilled(which is a misuse of the term)” population of those reliant on guidance for decision making(even though today PAF is heavily micromanaged as well) which is impossible to guarantee even 10-20% are fully trained to exact standards and combat effective under current structures, scale and overall quality of reporting/officers.

I’ll give you an example of competence overruled by corruption - Ive given it here before.

The Mp5 was NEVER supposed to be inducted as a battle rifle or “field” weapon in PA. A vested brass pushed for it - a competent officer evaluated it , laid it out plainly in his report that the bullet is on the ground in less than 400-500 yards which is ridiculous for anything other thsn CQB.

But he was overridden because laad saab had connections with the manufacturer and was getting kickbacks. So you had a disadvantage pushed to troops because of one mans greed. The competent officer eventually retired early and if I recall ended up in overseas for some MNC.

Don’t underestimate good people in PA, just as with PAF or PN.

Now excuse my language
حرامی قوم ہو

نسلی
اب وہ نسل فوج میں جائے یا سیاست میں
جب کوئی حرام کو سوائے اللّٰہ کے سامنے یا اصل میں لوگوں کے سامنے ٹوپی ڈرامہ کرنے کے لئے - برا نا سمجھیں اور سب کے سب مجبوری اے وقت کہ ٹال دیں
پھر جھوٹے حفاظ یا گھمنڈ بیوقوفوں کی تبدیلی مبارک ہو

 

[arsalan345]

1) Buy more layered AD including quick reaction shorads or a Land based CIWS type system. You can detect Brahmos pretty far out but then because of its speed your decision time needs to be very on point.

Also and I am not being humorous - Ya Hayyu ya Qayyum, bi rahmatika astaghith, aslih li shani kullahu, wa la takilni ila nafsi tarfata ‘ayn

2) Depends on what was struck? If Runways you have alternate taxiways and quick repair teams to allow flight ops. But you could see ammo dumps hit, debris on runway that needs clearing - your actual aircraft hit etc. Too wide a question.

3) From the east you have enough EW and now other methods to bring them down. From inside, from trucks laden with drones or quite simply humans as self guided weapons - you have mixed capabilities and quite frankly the outlook isnt that great.

4)Anything can work, depends on scenario -in terms of jamming, in terms of accurate terrain data etc.

5) Those sams near Gujrat were placed recently as well and they were not a huge factor in terms of targeting IN - if anything that SAM was way more vulnerable than what would be acceptable for that system.

6) They have much more in mind, but to the Indian the most important thing isnt actual victory in conflict as an immediate outcome as is public image. Always has, is and will be.

7)If they do manage to capture critical parts you have the option to either launch counter attacks or invoke your red lines. Only if top leadership is willing to give it all up. For some reason India's leadership is now assured that no matter what happens Pakistani leaders no longer have the ability or guts or otherwise - to launch nuclear weapons. That is the most dangerous analysis of this past few years.

8)If the IN is willing to lose two dozen ships or more in making that attempt - sure - your next option is to use alternative supply lines through Gwadar but then your communication lines to Gwadar are purely road based and will also need cover.

9) They are projecting internal political propaganda.

10) Pakistanis foolishly believe too much in "Inshallah" and are generally now apathetic to threat to life because life is cheap. Do you remember the 2005 earthquake? Everyone responded - all talk of proofing buildings, NDMA(which then got embroiled in corruption scandals).
Do you know you still have the fraud metal sticks being used at airports as bomb detectors and no one cares to actually protest it despite knowing they are in danger anytime they go to the airport or other areas?
You think Pakistanis will prepare? They will watch a drone kill them, cry at Phupa killed buying tomatoes - and then Phupa's newly married Nephew will be making two more babies that same evening.

11) The Chinese will protect any investment they deem worthy but wont cut their own hand off to save anything they see as a black hole.

I agree with you. I think they will attack paf with whatever they have. They want to take out paf because it's the biggest hurdle in indian ground invasion. They will try to destroy 50 to 60% paf on the ground. This is what they will try. i am sure they can't face paf in bvr and that's why use of cruise missile was initiated by india.

I hope we are well prepared. There are obviously other factors like two front because of talibans etc. I got this feeling that we are chill, relaxed and expecting similiar attack just like in may. There is a lot of war mongering going on from the indian side which can't be ignored. They realized PAF is backbone so they are willing to bomb us again and again. Also lack of aggressive posture from our side is helping india indirectly.

 

[Oscar]

I agree with you. I think they will attack paf with whatever they have. They want to take out paf because it's the biggest hurdle in indian ground invasion. They will try to destroy 50 to 60% paf on the ground. This is what they will try. i am sure they can't face paf in bvr and that's why use of cruise missile was initiated by india.

I hope we are well prepared. There are obviously other factors like two front because of talibans etc. I got this feeling that we are chill, relaxed and expecting similiar attack just like in may. There is a lot of war mongering going on from the indian side which can't be ignored. They realized PAF is backbone so they are willing to bomb us again and again. Also lack of aggressive posture from our side is helping india indirectly.

I can assure you the competent people are doing their job. They are monitoring, preparing and so on.
Problem is that not only do they need to be prepared to fight the Indians or Afghan threat but also the incompetent people at various levels who are strong and expert sycophants.

 

[PK781]

Why do you assume GHQ babas are the only corrupt ones? Or that PAF only competent?

From a percentage perspective it may astonish you that more PAF officers have engaged in corruption versus PA ones - and as far as competence is concerned there are plenty of PA officers who are both honest and competent - they keep it all together.

The PAF has both more immediate impact on the battlefield than PA and so the level of learning required for a baseline PAF officer is higher than PA so the selection criteria gets to be more selective - but that doesn’t mean there aren’t highly technical PA branches who were involved in May in critical aspects.

The issue is that PA has a much larger “unskilled(which is a misuse of the term)” population of those reliant on guidance for decision making(even though today PAF is heavily micromanaged as well) which is impossible to guarantee even 10-20% are fully trained to exact standards and combat effective under current structures, scale and overall quality of reporting/officers.

I’ll give you an example of competence overruled by corruption - Ive given it here before.

The Mp5 was NEVER supposed to be inducted as a battle rifle or “field” weapon in PA. A vested brass pushed for it - a competent officer evaluated it , laid it out plainly in his report that the bullet is on the ground in less than 400-500 yards which is ridiculous for anything other thsn CQB.

But he was overridden because laad saab had connections with the manufacturer and was getting kickbacks. So you had a disadvantage pushed to troops because of one mans greed. The competent officer eventually retired early and if I recall ended up in overseas for some MNC.

Don’t underestimate good people in PA, just as with PAF or PN.

Now excuse my language
حرامی قوم ہو

نسلی
اب وہ نسل فوج میں جائے یا سیاست میں
جب کوئی حرام کو سوائے اللّٰہ کے سامنے یا اصل میں لوگوں کے سامنے ٹوپی ڈرامہ کرنے کے لئے - برا نا سمجھیں اور سب کے سب مجبوری اے وقت کہ ٹال دیں
پھر جھوٹے حفاظ یا گھمنڈ بیوقوفوں کی تبدیلی مبارک ہو

apprecitae your response, it surely helps people like me as we're civilians and dont have much info on military inside infos.
Thank You Sir

 

[Gripen9]

@Fatman17 aap tu famoos hogaye...

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It seems all these so called paj33t defense anal-yst have contaminated these forum for years...

 

[S.Y.A]

even though today PAF is heavily micromanaged as well

wont that have an effect on its performance? if people cant think for themselves?

 

[Fatman17]

wont that have an effect on its performance? if people cant think for themselves?

All militaries are Top-down institutions. If you think too much you're out of there

 

[S.Y.A]

All militaries are Top-down institutions. If you think too much you're out of there

talking about micromanagement.

 

[Fatman17]

talking about micromanagement.

It is part of it.

 

[side-winder]

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[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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as per indian commentators here, 'India wins, either way!'


seems, there are too hell bent on winning!

will do anything to win, like a sore loser!

 

[RescueRanger]

All militaries are Top-down institutions. If you think too much you're out of there

Well said sir. This is the part thay people forget, the droppings always rain downwards

 

[hasssanali8998]

only question is, what shot it down?!

failure or lost its target , just like the recent pac3 patriot missiles that fell don in Ukraine , looks like it hit soft ground so it survived

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[hasssanali8998]

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where were they our navy was literally bored

 

[hasssanali8998]

Yaeh, it shows the feelings of butthurt Indians. They feel disgraced and left out. 'My pharrand' invited 'Howdy Modi' but a humiliated Modi preferred not to attend the event to avoid even more humiliation.

yeah we did our presser and left it ,and they are still coming with presentations