Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Samurai]

They are not remotely in the same category, JF-17 is a light fighter and the superHornet is a Heavy fighter, the SuperHornet has more then double the Max takeoff weight of the JF-17.

Also the SuperHornet doesn't need to rely on fuel tanks as much since it has access to the American global aerial refueling network.

With all the payload limitations on JF-17 due to its weight constraints, I would really want PAC to redesign the next iteration of JF-17 with a larger airframe to accommodate its current deficiencies. IMO rather than going for the JF-17 PFX project to make it stealth, they should first focus on its airframe MTOW and ground clearance - same as with Saab Gripen E. JF-17 should be a proper workhorse for carrying such standoff magazine. But this is another pandoras box and debate for another time and another thread.

 

[Ak01]

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600LView attachment 196390

except one issue.

Fatah 2 weighs over a ton less...while having greater range. Just because you see a similar looking layout, does not mean its the same.

 

[Ak01]

Fatah 2 is not based on the WS600L.

It is based on the DF-12, which China also exported to Belarus.

View attachment 196406

DF-12 weighs 2x as much. Its not the same. Fatah 1/2/4 are wholly Pakistani designed.

 

[White Privilege]

All this talk of hd-1 no one even mentioned the rws AA guns and missile laundhed mines/ mine clearing viechles / robots

Slaving the Oerlikons to an E/O turret is worth noting value addition for taking down drones swarms. I had started to believe these guns had become obsolete against newer threats. Wonder if the Giraffe radar is any good against such smaller targets.

 

[studsmart]

what ever it is F3 is a new surprise and i believe it will be near HS if not fully HS .. a Good Curve ball or in Cricket term a new doosra.

 

[hussain0216]

For people wondering why the HD-1 hasn't had any export success up until recently is because the export market for land attack Supersonic missiles is absolutely tiny.

Most countries aren't in conflict with near peer adversaries with complex air defence networks where they would need a multi million dollar SS missile to penetrate them.

It essentially comes down to Algeria and Pakistan, Algeria already has the land based CM-302, so Pakistan is essentially the only one.

I think the OEM understood this and It's why they showcased the missile with the Mirage 3/5 and JF-17 platforms which only Pakistan operated at the Time and why they would have been quite willing to do a licence/TOT agreement.

I think we would have gotten a very positive deal for the missile also, because we have a OEM that has limited options

For Pakistan it makes sense, it saves time and effort and if we got full TOT then we can continue development of the missile and extend its range with OEM support if needs be

 

[Mujahid]

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600LView attachment 196390

All the missiles and other ammunition in the world is a copy of its predecessor.. The only pioneer of missile tech is Nazi Germany.. Get out of copy cat labeling mindset..

 

[safriz]

I think we would have gotten a very positive deal for the missile also, because we have a OEM that has limited options

For Pakistan it makes sense, it saves time and effort and if we got full TOT then we can continue development of the missile and extend its range with OEM support if needs be

No No No...you Pakistanis use Cheeni maal and paint you flags on it...
As if its a contest for gold medals, or trophies.
If its available, and it works, and Pakistan gets autonomy over its use and modifications, then why not.

 

[Ali_Baba]

another angle... Fatah-IIIA
View attachment 196415

I do wonder it/when we will see this for real ? It would be nice to believe that PAF will also induct this platform, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Ali_Baba]

With all the payload limitations on JF-17 due to its weight constraints, I would really want PAC to redesign the next iteration of JF-17 with a larger airframe to accommodate its current deficiencies. IMO rather than going for the JF-17 PFX project to make it stealth, they should first focus on its airframe MTOW and ground clearance - same as with Saab Gripen E. JF-17 should be a proper workhorse for carrying such standoff magazine. But this is another pandoras box and debate for another time and another thread.

Hate to burst your bubble, but PAC/PAF has no technical ability to make any airframe changes at all. Maybe they can pay Chinese engineers to do so, but there none in Pakistan.

PFX as a stealth platform is a non starter aswell, for the same reasons. The JF17C is the best that the platform will ever be, with only substitution of systems with local variants that are viable for Pakistan to do.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Ibbi32]

2 missiles is too impractical, A more realistic loadout

Heavy strike/Air superiority

4 PL-15s
2 PL-10s
1 HD 1 (centre pylon)
2 1200L drop tanks
1 self protection jamming pod.

No lmao. The centerline pylon doesn’t have clearence for that and 1200L droptanks weigh a shitton and have so much drag lugging them with every other weapon is stupid.

 

[RealNapster]

View attachment 196558

So here are the total number of missiles per lauch vehicle of each FATAH type

FATAH 1 = 8 missiles
FATAH 2 = 2 missiles
FATAH 3 = 4 missiles
FATAH 4 = 3 missiles

 

[Mohid Afzal]

Question for all members, The Fatah 3 missile system, is it fully lcally made like it was said in the conference or fully locally produced via ToT or bought off the shelf?
The reason for asking this is because of my confusion. Few pages back, a tweet claims a range of 290km to 450-500km. If it is bought off the shelf then it would be capped at a range of 290km due to MTCR but to gain a range of over 400km, it needs to be produced locally, either by reverse engineering or using the original missile as a base.
At the same time, many senior members have argued about Pakistan being unable to produce such a complex system locally due lack expertise, capital and so on.

 

[side-winder]

The Lt Col is CO of a Fatah unit. He says ARFC have even test fired Fatah-V.

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