Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[maxpane]

We dont have the TOT for it man , thier is no evidence for it .
Its an HD1 named Fatah3 . TOT doesnt just always allow you to make these , it requires investments too , we probably bought a big batch of them and will be in future too

@Panzerkiel sir can you help. i think you have already said that first batch is importewd one . whilelater we build in house i mean tot

 

[Michael]

@Panzerkiel sir can you help. i think you have already said that first batch is importewd one . whilelater we build in house i mean tot

So far, there seems to be no official news confirming that 'Fatah 3 = the Pakistani version of HD-1.' All the news comes from netizens and the media, based on speculations from photo comparisons.

As for 'ToT,' the key issue does not lie with Pakistan, but with this Chinese company.

Guangdong Hongda Blasting Co.,Ltd.
It was originally a local government-owned enterprise engaged in civil blasting projects. Later, it underwent enterprise system reform and became a privately-owned listed company. Afterwards, through capital integration, it merged with several related companies and obtained military product production qualifications.

However, through in-depth analysis, we can be 100% certain that all the company's “HD” series missiles are assembled and integrated products. The company completely lacks full industrial chain production capabilities, and even more so lacks the production and R&D capabilities for related subsystems. For example, missile guidance systems, propulsion systems, and so on.

To give an example that a Pakistani friend might understand better, the production mode of this company's HD series missiles is like India producing iPhones. It is uncertain whether Pakistani friends can understand this phenomenon.

If Pakistan really discusses the ToT of the HD series missiles with Guangdong Hongda, its actual significance would be very small. Pakistan would still need, like Guangdong Hongda, to purchase a large number of components from China's vast component supply market.

 

[maxpane]

So far, there seems to be no official news confirming that 'Fatah 3 = the Pakistani version of HD-1.' All the news comes from netizens and the media, based on speculations from photo comparisons.

As for 'ToT,' the key issue does not lie with Pakistan, but with this Chinese company.

Guangdong Hongda Blasting Co.,Ltd.
It was originally a local government-owned enterprise engaged in civil blasting projects. Later, it underwent enterprise system reform and became a privately-owned listed company. Afterwards, through capital integration, it merged with several related companies and obtained military product production qualifications.

However, through in-depth analysis, we can be 100% certain that all the company's “HD” series missiles are assembled and integrated products. The company completely lacks full industrial chain production capabilities, and even more so lacks the production and R&D capabilities for related subsystems. For example, missile guidance systems, propulsion systems, and so on.

To give an example that a Pakistani friend might understand better, the production mode of this company's HD series missiles is like India producing iPhones. It is uncertain whether Pakistani friends can understand this phenomenon.

If Pakistan really discusses the ToT of the HD series missiles with Guangdong Hongda, its actual significance would be very small. Pakistan would still need, like Guangdong Hongda, to purchase a large number of components from China's vast component supply market.

@Panzerkiel is a professional . He knows a lot more about it

 

[falcon34]

We dont have the TOT for it man , thier is no evidence for it .
Its an HD1 named Fatah3 . TOT doesnt just always allow you to make these , it requires investments too , we probably bought a big batch of them and will be in future too

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600L

 

[Samurai]

2 missiles is too impractical, A more realistic loadout

Heavy strike/Air superiority

4 PL-15s
2 PL-10s
1 HD 1 (centre pylon)
2 1200L drop tanks
1 self protection jamming pod.

Totally agree with that loadout and its feasible. Recently, there was a photo circulating in the US defence blogs of an US Navy F-18 carrying heavy air-to-air missile loadout. They were basically testing the new AIM-174B very long range A2A missile (SM-6 turned into A2A) to counter Chinese PL-17.

- 4 AIM-174B (3300 lb/ 1497 kg)
- 3 AIM-120 AMRAAMs
- 2 AIM-9X Sidewinders
- IRST Pod
- Targeting Pod

So assuming both F-18 and JF-17 are of same weight category, we should expect JF-17 to carry such weight with at least one HD-1.

Edit: Correction - JF17 and F18 are not in same weight category. F18 is heavier.

 

[Toxic]

Totally agree with that loadout and its feasible. Recently, there was a photo circulating in the US defence blogs of an US Navy F-18 carrying heavy air-to-air missile loadout. They were basically testing the new AIM-174B very long range A2A missile (SM-6 turned into A2A) to counter Chinese PL-17.

- 4 AIM-174B (3300 lb/ 1497 kg)
- 3 AIM-120 AMRAAMs
- 2 AIM-9X Sidewinders
- IRST Pod
- Targeting Pod

So assuming both F-18 and JF-17 are of same weight category, we should expect JF-17 to carry such weight with at least one HD-1.

View attachment 196391

They are not remotely in the same category, JF-17 is a light fighter and the superHornet is a Heavy fighter, the SuperHornet has more then double the Max takeoff weight of the JF-17.

Also the SuperHornet doesn't need to rely on fuel tanks as much since it has access to the American global aerial refueling network.

 

[kimjongun]

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600LView attachment 196390

yes this was discusses quite a lot , and some say iits was the S-Y400 which was the f2 , tthe frontal fins are somewhat different of this missile. At the end of the day GIDS actually doesn't produces much of its tech

 

[Toxic]

yes this was discusses quite a lot , and some say iits was the S-Y400 which was the f2 , tthe frontal fins are somewhat different of this missile. At the end of the day GIDS actually doesn't produces much of its tech

GIDS is just a marketing umbrella, the RND and production is done by NESCOM and other orgs

 

[Princeps]

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600LView attachment 196390

WS600L is 3500kg and 8.5 m in length
Fatah-2 is 2600kg and 7.5 m in length
the fins are also different

They are similar but not the exactly the same

 

[mythbuster]

bro if this is hd then i am fatah 69

Koi sharam hoti ha koi haya hoti ha...

 

[Toxic]

Koi sharam hoti ha koi haya hoti ha...

Wo jo apko pata nahi hogi ap to Patwari ho...

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Yah. The famous "we will eat grass".

Why don't you eat grass so you can build your economy up too, not just your military, then you can eat healthy foods and manufacture weapons together without eating grass forever?

 

[RealNapster]

Why don't you eat grass so you can build your economy up too, not just your military, then you can eat healthy foods and manufacture weapons together without eating grass forever?

If only I could help people understand sarcasm.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Nah, than they would have labelled it HD-1 just like CM400akg, we possible are making in house the guidance and the airframe engines most probably still comes from china. We'll know it for sure on 14 August if the range is quoted between 400-600km than for sure it's TOT, Do you know even F2 is based on Chinese missiles ws600L. Inshort the entire rocket force is based on Chinese TOT with Pakistani modifications same is the for HD-1 we see modifications on it too.
Here is WS600LView attachment 196390

Fatah 2 is not based on the WS600L.

It is based on the DF-12, which China also exported to Belarus.

 

[aurelianpilled]

View attachment 196366

another angle... Fatah-IIIA