Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[JamD]

I'm just guessing but I feel like planners have realized that cruise missiles (albeit supersonic) are easy targets for air defense missiles. Yes they fly low and fast but once detected computing a firing solution is easy. Furthermore, you need a lot of technological knowledge to make supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles. Also they tend to be huge. So perhaps the calculus is that we forego stealth altogether and use ballistics to have very high speeds with weapons that are in general smaller than supersonic cruise missiles and using tech that Pakistan mostly has a mastery over.

 

[falcon34]

P282
Because we got ghosted on P282 and the second NOTAM, I'm going to speculate on the P282. I believe that the p282 is going to be DF-17 type deal - maybe smaller - mounted on a SMASH. SMASH with HGV warhead. But that's just wild speculation based on feelings.

Yes I've taken inspiration from the Iranian Fatah HGV. I have this conjecture because:
1. There is a lot of confusion between SMASH P282.
2. The Jinnah class is getting P282 so it can't be a bigger thing than the SMASH.
3. The Iranian Fatah HGV that seems to be in technological grasp of Iran so I speculate it should be achievable by Pakistan.

@farooqbhai thoughts?

Well the NOTAM stands till 12pm 7th, maybe we could get any news on it tomorrow.

 

[Oscar]

It's interesting that there's (currently) no known supersonic-cruising ASCM project in the works and, apparently, the PN is moving all-in on ASBMs for supersonic (and possibly hypersonic) applications.

Any idea on why the PN might skip on backing a homegrown BrahMos or CM-302 equivalent? I get the need to add ASBMs into the mix (especially with HGVs one day), but why stop there?

@JamD @farooqbhai @Oscar

One thing traditional projectile based CIWS struggle with at times are high angle projectiles -

Given enough coverage CiWS can handle sea skimmers with a projectile barrage - but unless a sam gets it a ballistic projectile is likely going straight through the top

 

[Bilal]

I'm just guessing but I feel like planners have realized that cruise missiles (albeit supersonic) are easy targets for air defense missiles. Yes they fly low and fast but once detected computing a firing solution is easy. Furthermore, you need a lot of technological knowledge to make supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles. Also they tend to be huge. So perhaps the calculus is that we forego stealth altogether and use ballistics to have very high speeds with weapons that are in general smaller than supersonic cruise missiles and using tech that Pakistan mostly has a mastery over.

Yes, but it will give the stepping stone tech for future Hypersonic Cruise missile (ram jet propulsion and materials for low altitude high speed cruising).

Maybe the pathway for this is to do a local license manufacturing of some Chinese system like CM302 just to absorb the know how.

 

[JamD]

Yes, but it will give the stepping stone tech for future Hypersonic Cruise missile (ram jet propulsion and materials for low altitude high speed cruising).

Maybe the pathway for this is to do a local license manufacturing of some Chinese system like CM302 just to absorb the know how.

I think our strat orgs are adverse to developing technologies to be used in things later down the road. There is more of a product mindset to get the mission done. But that's just my opinion.

 

[RAJPUT]

I think our strat orgs are adverse to developing technologies to be used in things later down the road. There is more of a product mindset to get the mission done. But that's just my opinion.

Absolutely. When have we ever heard of our military making use of a knowledge base to come up with something new. What they do is when it is time to counter some procurement made by India, they just buy the solution at the time rather than making that technological progress organically given the time frames between the major purchases by India. But still, somehow, we manage to neutralize whatever threat India poses us.

 

[farooqbhai]

Tender for construction of P282 Support infrastructure (storage and maintenance) was given out by PN in like 2022 or 23. But we managed to see Smash get tested first than P282

 

[JamD]

Tender for construction of P282 Support infrastructure (storage and maintenance) was given out by PN in like 2022 or 23. But we managed to see Smash get tested first than P282

Call it confirmation bias but I also thought of that and isn't that even more reason they are related? That is they just meant storage for P282/SMASH.

Assuming my conjecture is correct, SMASH is a relatively easier system than the P282. And the test for SMASH is really the test for P282's base vehicle. Tests may be ongoing for the P282 but no test that can be advertised as success has happened.

I know I am being bit of a Zarvan lol.

 

[Jungibaaz]

If the focus of P282 and future shifts to ballistic missiles + glide vehicles, I suppose that leaves little room to develop ramjet or scramjet propulsion. Some of us were pinning our hopes on the development of these types via the P282.

Then again, if a DF-17 style system works, we can also presumably scale it smaller to have a Mako like ALBM. It gets the job done for now.

 

[JamD]

If the focus of P282 and future shifts to ballistic missiles + glide vehicles, I suppose that leaves little room to develop ramjet or scramjet propulsion. Some of us were pinning our hopes on the development of these types via the P282.

Then again, if a DF-17 style system works, we can also presumably scale it smaller to have a Mako like ALBM. It gets the job done for now.

Again the whole DF17 thing is speculation. There may be an air breathing program somewhere.

I just feel scramjets are such a difficult technology that our strat orgs do not have the appetite for it. I am basing this on having done research that was trying to control things in scramjets (so I'm not a scramjet expert just someone that is scramjet adjacent) and the way I know projects work in SPD. It would take decades of research and development to have a viable program that won't give any useful products for a while. Programs like that are rare for us.

 

[Oscar]

Again the whole DF17 thing is speculation. There may be an air breathing program somewhere.

I just feel scramjets are such a difficult technology that our strat orgs do not have the appetite for it. I am basing this on having done research that was trying to control things in scramjets (so I'm not a scramjet expert just someone that is scramjet adjacent) and the way I know projects work in SPD. It would take decades of research and development to have a viable program that won't give any useful products for a while. Programs like that are rare for us.

If they’ll do it - then it’s the Harbah route - get via ToT and just make as is.

 

[falcon34]

NOTAM just ended, we might see P282 or harbah press release in a few hours.

 

[Goku-Kun]

Well the NOTAM stands till 12pm 7th, maybe we could get any news on it tomorrow.

yeah the NOTAM timing ends at UTC 0700 so that translates to 12:00PM today..so we might get a news.

 

[falcon34]

yeah the NOTAM timing ends at UTC 0700 so that translates to 12:00PM today..so we might get a news.

Hopefully, otherwise it would make zero sense to high light ships will be conducting naval live firing, they could have just given a random NOTAM and we would have called it a day, but mentioning of ships will be conducting live fire seems dumb when your not gonna announce what your firing.

 

[falcon34]

No other test reported.