Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[Rational Philosopher]

To be honest, I think for a new generation of strategic nuclear deterrence missile, we need a missile similar to the Russian Oreshnik - MIRV capable IRBM with high-speed advanced maneuvering warheads.

This should be the capability that Ababeel tries to match. We need about 200 - 300 of these perhaps.



Another type of future-proof penetration capability will be hypersonic glide vehicles (Similar in concept to DF-17 or Avangard)

Here is a video explaining the idea in reference to Iran's Fattah 2, though I don't think they were able to use it:

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And then we have also discussed the requirements of more advanced cruise missiles, in range and speed (for both a conventional and nuclear role):

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@FuturePAF

why not complete the work and when everything is done and production is also done in numerous number than pakistan announce it for deterence

Just as to not draw any negative attention or panic. In the background though we will possess the required technology, those who should worry will know. We typically keep to ourselves and only cite our military programs as India-centric deterrence to keep the focus away.

 

[Oscar]

To be honest, I think for a new generation of strategic nuclear deterrence missile, we need a missile similar to the Russian Oreshnik - MIRV capable IRBM with high-speed advanced maneuvering warheads.

This should be the capability that Ababeel tries to match. We need about 200 - 300 of these perhaps.

View attachment 130450

Another type of future-proof penetration capability will be hypersonic glide vehicles (Similar in concept to DF-17 or Avangard)

Here is a video explaining the idea in reference to Iran's Fattah 2, though I don't think they were able to use it:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

And then we have also discussed the requirements of more advanced cruise missiles, in range and speed (for both a conventional and nuclear role):

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

@FuturePAF


Just as to not draw any negative attention or panic. In the background though we will possess the required technology, those who should worry will know. We typically keep to ourselves and only cite our military programs as India-centric deterrence to keep the focus away.

That is decades of knowledge which Pakistan has no inkling of. China is a little off on that as well.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

That is decades of knowledge which Pakistan has no inkling of. China is a little off on that as well.

Do you mean the hypersonic cruise missile specifically or all of that in general?

Pretty sure an Oreshnik and HGV equivalent are already operational in China. I would agree with the hypersonic cruise missile tech, it's extremely complex and we realistically don't even have the required funds to develop it, technical knowhow aside.

But Pakistan is fielding rudimentary MIRVs on the Ababeel. I think the first two are doable if there is a strong will. It's scramjet tech for hypersonic cruise missiles and allowing for precise targeting which will probably be realistically out of our reach.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Do you mean the hypersonic cruise missile specifically or all of that in general?

Pretty sure an Oreshnik and HGV equivalent are already operational in China. I would agree with the hypersonic cruise missile tech, it's extremely complex and we realistically don't even have the required funds to develop it, technical knowhow aside.

But Pakistan is fielding rudimentary MIRVs on the Ababeel. I think the first two are doable if there is a strong will. It's scramjet tech for hypersonic cruise missiles and allowing for precise targeting which will probably be realistically out of our reach.

Its not that simple even for Oreshnik and HGV kind of missiles. China wont provide that technology that easily. we need to pick bright pakistani scientist to work on Advanced Propulsion Systems where we need expertise in Computational fluid dynamics (CFD) for scramjet airflow modeling, Material science for high temperature alloys and chemical engineering for advance propellants with high specific impulse, we will also need advance knowledge in Aerodynamics and Flight Dynamics and Materials Science and Thermal Protection.

I think pakistan need to sign a university to university agreement with china like NUST colloborating with Tsinghua and peking universities? not just for undergrad but post graduate and research studies.

 

[Falcon26]

Ghauri series will most likely be used as fodder for A.D whilst Shaheen and other missiles are supposed to break through

More recently Pakistan has viewed the Fatah series as the tool to strike our enemies

But production has only been ongoing for the last few years so numbers are likely limited

That's why Fatah 1 was our missile of choice in the recent conflict

Fatah 2 (400km) and Fatah 4 (750km) will be inducted in numbers also

The CEP has been bought down to 10-15m and will be reduced further



Fatah 3 (450km) is interesting because they called it the Abdali and mostly has a nuclear role


I think this is one of the series they will concentrate on to give us a 1000-1500 area of operation with mobile, survivable, conventional and nuclear attack options

And I'm sure they are working on follow on options to the Shaheen series

Same with smash, I'm sure they will work on longer range versions



The x factor always being, how can China help or what we can get with tot, as the Df17 would be a incredible ballistic anti ship missile

Pakistan has to build into its strategic equation that attacks in the future won’t come exclusively from India. There’s a very high possibility that Israel and other countries will strike Pakistan and so Pakistan must build missiles of sufficient range, that can evade BM & which are extremely accurate.

If Pakistani decision-makers focus only on India, they will lose big time.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Pakistan has to build into its strategic equation that attacks in the future won’t come exclusively from India. There’s a very high possibility that Israel and other countries will strike Pakistan and so Pakistan must build missiles of sufficient range, that can evade BM & which are extremely accurate.

If Pakistani decision-makers focus only on India, they will lose big time.

Missile strategy at long range failed for Iran

It seems like hitting targets very precisely from a very long distance while also having to evade some of the best missile defences ever built is very very difficult.

Some things which could have helped Iran was MIRV missiles, a single missile deploying several warheads + decoys. It would be more economical and allow saturation. And HGV for penetration.

I think to begin with, Pakistan needs a new generation of strategic nuclear deterrence missiles, something akin to the Russian Oreshnik. This will build a strong foundation, aside from conventional means.

 

[Falcon26]

Missile strategy at long range failed for Iran

It seems like hitting targets very precisely from a very long distance while also having to evade some of the best missile defences ever built is very very difficult.

Some things which could have helped Iran was MIRV missiles, a single missile deploying several warheads + decoys. It would be more economical and allow saturation. And HGV for penetration.

I think to begin with, Pakistan needs a new generation of strategic nuclear deterrence missiles, something akin to the Russian Oreshnik. This will build a strong foundation, aside from conventional means.

Pakistan has to go hypersonic & MIRV route aggressively. Very long range HGV based cruise missiles will wreck havoc and introduce effective deterrence.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Pakistan has to go hypersonic & MIRV route aggressively. Very long range HGV based cruise missiles will wreck havoc and introduce effective deterrence.

The main limiting factor is building them in large numbers to throw pot shots costs a lot of money. Just see how many Iran has fired and how many were intercepted.

You need an economically feasible solution that can actually be used in numbers during wartime.

I wreckon best bet would be salvos of MIRV missiles that can each deploy multiple advanced warheads + decoys, and a small number of HGVs in each salvo. But there's no guarantee even this strategy would be successful.

Israel benefits from being able to detect and track launches right after they happen, and anticipate their path to prepare interceptions. Remember they go through several countries airbases first, distance is over 1000km+.

 

[SABRE]

Pakistan has to go hypersonic & MIRV route aggressively. Very long range HGV based cruise missiles will wreck havoc and introduce effective deterrence.

I have reason to believe that supersonic cruise missile is on the cards. Cannot say anything about the progress, but I suspect sooner than later. Hypersonic, I cannot say anything.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Pakistan has to build into its strategic equation that attacks in the future won’t come exclusively from India. There’s a very high possibility that Israel and other countries will strike Pakistan and so Pakistan must build missiles of sufficient range, that can evade BM & which are extremely accurate.

If Pakistani decision-makers focus only on India, they will lose big time.

I would say that if the Israeli airforce were to land in India to combine their forces with India, PAF would struggle with this. PAF, currently can hold its own against India, it is still a small airarm. That is why Pakistan needs Iran, Egypt, Turkieye to have strong air arms that form a deterrence in the calculus of Israel.

 

[Toxic]

I would say that if the Israeli airforce were to land in India to combine their forces with India, PAF would struggle with this. PAF, currently can hold its own against India, it is still a small airarm. That is why Pakistan needs Iran, Egypt, Turkieye to have strong air arms that form a deterrence in the calculus of Israel.

You are going into the realm of fantasy here, Israelis are no threat to us, at best they should be tucked away in a far corner in the back of our minds, this paranoia is essentially shooting yourself in foot, preparing for something that will probably never come diverting focus and precious resources from the real threat.

 

[Corax]

You are going into the realm of fantasy here, Israelis are no threat to us, at best they should be tucked away in a far corner in the back of our minds, this paranoia is essentially shooting yourself in foot, preparing for something that will probably never come diverting focus and precious resources from the real threat.

As long as we don't do what the Iranians do, i.e. call for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth over decades, the Israelis have no interest. We don't have any issues with Israel either, save for diplomatic support for the Palestine issue. Most of the world sees Pak nukes in the context of the rivalry with india, and as long as we develop our strategic capability in that regards, no one will care. Diplomatically, we need to make it clear to the Israelis, overtly or covertly, that our nukes are no threat to them.

 

[Falcon26]

I would say that if the Israeli airforce were to land in India to combine their forces with India, PAF would struggle with this. PAF, currently can hold its own against India, it is still a small airarm. That is why Pakistan needs Iran, Egypt, Turkieye to have strong air arms that form a deterrence in the calculus of Israel.

Forget Egypt and Iran, nothing of substance is to be expected from them. Only Turkey is viable. In fact, it’s high time Pakistan enters into a mutual security arrangement with Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan can provide what no one else can: nuclear umbrella to both countries.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Forget Egypt and Iran, nothing of substance is to be expected from them. Only Turkey is viable. In fact, it’s high time Pakistan enters into a mutual security arrangement with Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan can provide what no one else can: nuclear umbrella to both countries.

Do you trust Saudi Arabia of MBS? I don't.

 

[Quwa]

Missile strategy at long range failed for Iran

It seems like hitting targets very precisely from a very long distance while also having to evade some of the best missile defences ever built is very very difficult.

Some things which could have helped Iran was MIRV missiles, a single missile deploying several warheads + decoys. It would be more economical and allow saturation. And HGV for penetration.

I think to begin with, Pakistan needs a new generation of strategic nuclear deterrence missiles, something akin to the Russian Oreshnik. This will build a strong foundation, aside from conventional means.

Pakistan has to go hypersonic & MIRV route aggressively. Very long range HGV based cruise missiles will wreck havoc and introduce effective deterrence.

IMO...a fully visible power projection capability is the way forward to prevent such attacks. Basically, a potential adversary's focus (in theory) goes on your projected presence rather than your core.

Put another way, these are the threat scenarios that can open the conversation for overseas bases, SSBN, and aircraft carrier.