Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[gamaji]

Nothing wrong with preparing for ‘worst case scenarios’, however unlikely.

Better to have policies and plans in place JUST IN CASE, rather than address such a situation on the fly.

Agreed, sir. But why not leave that to the concerned authorities?

It looks like a concerted effort to give the impression that Pak nukes are unsafe. Of course Indians initiated it and some internal enemies are spreading it.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

you have to understand israsel first in order to understand their mentality. they don't care. they will come for arabs again.

Someone posted the ‘Greater Israel’ map being worn as a patch by Israeli soldiers. Add in the vicious dehumanizing anti-Arab and anti-Islam rhetoric from all levels of not just the Israeli government, but Israeli society as well and the fact that they are high on the power trip of their recent military successes and the genocide of Palestinians on the back of the US, and it is absolutely a very serious threat.

We know about India’s ‘Akhand Bharat’ designs and how those have been mainstreamed to a large degree under the extremist Modi regime - the Israelis are no different (in fact worse in many ways).

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

The US spent over $ 4 billion in constructing this base, it's associated buildings, open and hidden command centers and structures. I had read a report around 2020 on this.

So what's another billion payout to get it back? Or some demands to meet? Food for thought.

I mean, anyone but the Taliban and I would agree with you

The Talibs chose to go to war and have the country destroyed even further instead of compromise on OBL.

And are the Chinese not involved in countering whatever the US offers the Taliban?

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Agreed, sir. But why not leave that to the concerned authorities?

It looks like a concerted effort to give the impression that Pak nukes are unsafe. Of course Indians initiated it and some internal enemies are spreading it.

I agree. I may have misunderstood your point. I thought it was about not discussing the potential current/future threats to Pakistan’s nuclear program - you appear to be arguing that we should not be undermining the existing robust controls and security already in place.

 

[arsalan345]

Someone posted the ‘Greater Israel’ map being worn as a patch by Israeli soldiers. Add in the vicious dehumanizing anti-Arab and anti-Islam rhetoric from all levels of not just the Israeli government, but Israeli society as well and the fact that they are high on the power trip of their recent military successes and the genocide of Palestinians on the back of the US, and it is absolutely a very serious threat.

We know about India’s ‘Akhand Bharat’ designs and how those have been mainstreamed to a large degree under the extremist Modi regime - the Israelis are no different (in fact worse in many ways).

it's going to happen. nobody desires war but war solves problems and we must all remain vigilant. doha, riyadh, cairo, ankara, karachi. we are all targets. we must show that we can fight. unity is necessary.

 

[Trailer23]

A few points answered by someone who there in the delegation. Dr Musadik Malik...

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[RescueRanger]

Josh tau hai, magar hosh say istamaal karna bhi zaroori hai.

Apologies to the mods in advance for the transliteration.

No apology needed sir.

 

[gamaji]

Someone posted the ‘Greater Israel’ map being worn as a patch by Israeli soldiers. Add in the vicious dehumanizing anti-Arab and anti-Islam rhetoric from all levels of not just the Israeli government, but Israeli society as well and the fact that they are high on the power trip of their recent military successes and the genocide of Palestinians on the back of the US, and it is absolutely a very serious threat.

We know about India’s ‘Akhand Bharat’ designs and how those have been mainstreamed to a large degree under the extremist Modi regime - the Israelis are no different (in fact worse in many ways).

The map of Akhand Bharat in the new Indian Parliament Building (2023) - names translated to English.

 

[RajaBaja]

I mean, anyone but the Taliban and I would agree with you

The Talibs chose to go to war and have the country destroyed even further instead of compromise on OBL.

And are the Chinese not involved in countering whatever the US offers the Taliban?

The Chinese had offered a lot just a few weeks ago when both Chinese and Pakistani FM's met with Talibans in Kabul. They proposed Afghanistan to be a part of the CPEC. Well on the surface, the Talibs liked the idea but if the public gets educated through these links and modernization comes, Talibs will have less religious nutt jobs in their force. So knowing that, they were only kind to meet. No follow up.

One of the demands from the Pakistani and the Chinese was to abandon Indian support for TTP/BLA so CPEC phase I now ready, can go live. But like we've all seen, there has been a significant increase in attacks from Afghanistan. Leading to us telling them last week to choose between India/TTP/BLA or Pakistan. Even then there's not been a positive response yet. So they'd rather see our deep strikes than stopping these terrorists. That's where Kabul is in this situation. So Chinese or the Pakistanis aren't their best friends right now so no offers will be accepted like the previous one's.

So it seems as the US will launch attacks on Talibans if Qatar or Saudis can't get the base?

 

[RajaBaja]

The map of Akhand Bharat in the new Indian Parliament Building (2023) - names translated to English.
View attachment 148690

Some "pipe dreams" only look good hanging on the walls. Majority of the artists who made the best art work were either drunk during creation or high on drugs. So this may be a result of such creativity.

 

[Tamerlane]

The Chinese had offered a lot just a few weeks ago when both Chinese and Pakistani FM's met with Talibans in Kabul. They proposed Afghanistan to be a part of the CPEC. Well on the surface, the Talibs liked the idea but if the public gets educated through these links and modernization comes, Talibs will have less religious nutt jobs in their force. So knowing that, they were only kind to meet. No follow up.

One of the demands from the Pakistani and the Chinese was to abandon Indian support for TTP/BLA so CPEC phase I now ready, can go live. But like we've all seen, there has been a significant increase in attacks from Afghanistan. Leading to us telling them last week to choose between India/TTP/BLA or Pakistan. Even then there's not been a positive response yet. So they'd rather see our deep strikes than stopping these terrorists. That's where Kabul is in this situation. So Chinese or the Pakistanis aren't their best friends right now so no offers will be accepted like the previous one's.

So it seems as the US will launch attacks on Talibans if Qatar or Saudis can't get the base?

Najam Sethi explained that the Taliban are not so strong. They themselves fear the terrorists of TTP, ISIS etc. According to Sethi they will let Pakistan attack and destroy the TTP and pretend to complain to keep their own public in control.

 

[Oscar]

Bolded part: You are assuming the smart person holding a job will have an economy big enough to have enough jobs to 'mentor' others? Also, it is your assumption that all smart people are leaving Pakistan. I saw plenty of smart people working in professional places and plenty of smart people looking for jobs--too many of them actually.


If what's good enough for India, BD etc then why not for Pakistan?? And Pakistanis are not just exporting those kind of people. There is plenty of professional ones too.

Anedotically speaking, coming just back from Pakistan, I saw many of the younger Pakistanis, who are my cousins/friends kids, working in professional jobs in Pakistan or professional jobs in America, Canada, the UK and the Middle East. It was actually surprising to me because my own generation of 30+ years ago had far limited opportunities.

My point remains: Pakistan, like other poor countries, has plenty of surplus labor available. Indians even sent a large number to Israel once the Gaza war started--into a war zone!

Brain drain is brain drain.
If the majority of smart people want to leave then the assumption that somehow there is a “smart people” factory in Pakistan that will churn out the same is wrong.

If that was the case every General coming out of Kakul and Quetta would be the next Guderian.

Most of these skilled and educated individuals are actively seeking to leave Pakistan due to limited opportunities, political instability, and economic challenges. Studies, including reports from everyone from UN, WB, Think tanks (happy to provide you an entire list to dispute with your own credentials) , have shown that large scale emigration of highly educated professionals leads to a significant talent gap for Pakistan's case especially that of healthcare workers, engineers, and IT professionals is particularly high, depleting sectors critical to national development.

Furthermore, what tends to replace those who leave is often not of the same caliber or experience, due to constraints in education quality, brain drain feedback loops, and lack of capacity building infrastructure. This results in a diminishing skill pool, which compounds the challenge of economic growth and innovation.

India’s experience differs mainly because many of its expatriates return with enhanced skills and investments, and India has a supportive environment to nurture talent domestically. Pakistan’s weaker institutional framework and limited incentives for returning professionals mean it struggles to retain or replenish its best human capital.

In sum, while Pakistan produces smart individuals, the ongoing exodus of top talent, combined with insufficient replacement by equally skilled professionals, undermines the country’s potential for sustainable development. No amount of sugar coating or establishment cheerleading will change that.

 

[Tamerlane]

The map of Akhand Bharat in the new Indian Parliament Building (2023) - names translated to English.
View attachment 148690

Those naked Hindu women are depicted in a lot of detail.

I believe the Hindu religion forbids them from crossing the Indus River. So, their claim is along the east side of the Indus. Karachi is on the West of the Indus, so it’s safe. Lahoris and Islamabadis will need to fight to keep the Indians out.

 

[Oscar]

Brain drain is not REAL in case of Pakistan. If we had a population of say 50 million or 70 million, and every year nearly 5% population was migrating ALL with college degrees and from experienced hi-tech or areas that are in demand, yes you can consider a real issue because the population pool leaving is very strong.

In Western nations, in many of them including Japan and China, the population isn't having children. So brain drain applies here. Because you aren't producing new brains with more talent to come up. The competition may be an older population set.

While in India and Pakistan's case, one person leaves, for one job, you'll get a thousand resumes. Because our population continues to produce that human resource at a very large level.

For a productive discussion, it needs to be taken as facts. Not political drama that's just going berserk without logic.

India, as an example, talent left has created influence over ALL major nations and they are enabling talent back home to grow. Their economy is highly US dependent but the services sector has taken them to a $ 3.5 trillion economy.

Chinese did the same. Philippines did the same. Obviously all within their opportunity level they could find, some more some less.

We also have the 5th largest population in the world. It's absolutely NO issue if a few million of our educated people go overseas, connect with higher tiers, connect with political influencers and create influence for Pakistan's growth. Similar to India, China, Philippines. Our population is ever growing, we won't even feel a few million leaving

Utterly wrong and a very flawed understanding of losing talent.

First, brain drain is not merely about raw numbers of people leaving; it is about the quality and type of talent that departs and the capacity of the country to replace that talent with equal or better skilled individuals.

Pakistan may have a large population, but the proportion of highly educated, specialized, and experienced professionals emigrating is significant enough to cause pronounced skill shortages in critical sectors like healthcare, engineering, education, and technology. The assumption that one job vacancy is met by a thousand equivalent resumes disregards the fact that not all resumes are equal in skills, training, or experience.

Quantity does not replace quality. Or are you now going to argue that 5 F-7Ps are a cheaper better alternative to J-10s? What is good for the goose is good for the gander and Pakistan is not producing enough J-10s.

Second, the argument that population growth compensates for brain drain ignores the educational and economic infrastructure constraints in Pakistan.

Producing highly skilled professionals requires more than just large population numbers(unless you are suggesting Pakistani wombs are producing geniunes who like Hazrat Issa come literate on day 1)

It demands quality education, research opportunities, professional development, and economic ecosystems that can absorb and nurture these talents. Without investment in these areas, the supply of skilled workers remains inadequate, regardless of population size.

Third, the comparison with countries like India, China, and the Philippines is misleading. These countries have benefited from exponential return migration and active diaspora engagement, which Pakistan lacks to a significant degree. Many Indian and Chinese expatriates return with enhanced skills, capital, and networks, and robust policies encourage this.

In contrast, Pakistan’s political instability, weak institutions, and limited economic incentives reduce the likelihood of skilled professionals returning or engaging positively to foster growth domestically. Infact when they try to return with investment they are instead met with asks for bribes or worse to facilitate their investment.

Fourth, relying on diaspora influence abroad as a substitute for domestic brain capacity is idealistic but unrealistic. While diaspora engagement can help, it cannot replace the on-ground presence of skilled professionals who innovate, lead, and develop institutions within the country. The idea that simply "a few million leaving" creates influence dishonestly ignores the damage caused when those millions are not replaced by similarly capable individuals.

Finally, the your dismissing of the issue as "political drama" without logic is in itself illogical.

Global research and Pakistan-specific data show brain drain creates systemic challenges. These include critical shortages in healthcare workers, reduced research and development capacity, and weakened governance structures. Ignoring these facts hampers any meaningful discussion on developmental policies.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Brain drain is brain drain.
If the majority of smart people want to leave then the assumption that somehow there is a “smart people” factory in Pakistan that will churn out the same is wrong.

If that was the case every General coming out of Kakul and Quetta would be the next Guderian.

Most of these skilled and educated individuals are actively seeking to leave Pakistan due to limited opportunities, political instability, and economic challenges. Studies, including reports from everyone from UN, WB, Think tanks (happy to provide you an entire list to dispute with your own credentials) , have shown that large scale emigration of highly educated professionals leads to a significant talent gap for Pakistan's case especially that of healthcare workers, engineers, and IT professionals is particularly high, depleting sectors critical to national development.

Furthermore, what tends to replace those who leave is often not of the same caliber or experience, due to constraints in education quality, brain drain feedback loops, and lack of capacity building infrastructure. This results in a diminishing skill pool, which compounds the challenge of economic growth and innovation.

India’s experience differs mainly because many of its expatriates return with enhanced skills and investments, and India has a supportive environment to nurture talent domestically. Pakistan’s weaker institutional framework and limited incentives for returning professionals mean it struggles to retain or replenish its best human capital.

In sum, while Pakistan produces smart individuals, the ongoing exodus of top talent, combined with insufficient replacement by equally skilled professionals, undermines the country’s potential for sustainable development. No amount of sugar coating or establishment cheerleading will change that.

Exactly! I think we all might have experienced or know many examples of bright Pakistanis who came abroad and did amazing work. Accomplishments that their companies / governments recognize and appreciate. They brought their families along, their children born in those countries and I don't see them ever going back to Pakistan for settling down. If that's not a brain drain then what it is? They left at first place because there is no respect / recognition of talent in Pakistan. There's not even good opportunities.

There's influx of people sending CVs of their children, some even graduated from reputed universities and I know they are smart kids but if still they are not landing good jobs then things are not good. Especially in these last few years. We all are aware of kind of brain drain happened post 2022.