Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[r3alist]

You're really too much of a fantasist. You're always making wild guesses and daydreams that have no practical significance. However, you're so active in PDF that I can't bear to criticize you.

1、Did you know that there is a fundamental conflict between Saudi Arabia and Türkiye? The conflict between them is far greater than the conflict between China and Türkiye.

2. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia: A military alliance? Who helps whom? Pakistan itself is in a precarious state. To whom can it provide military protection?

Guys. Take a break.

This is the biggest difference between Chinese and Pakistani culture.

Chinese people generally dislike using future tense words like "maybe," "will," and "soon."
When making future plans, we tend to consider all possible scenarios for failure and develop contingency plans. In other words, we tend to think in terms of the worst-case scenario, not the best-case scenario.
Once we finalize a plan and begin executing it, we strive to achieve it at all costs. Our greatest wish is that all backup measures remain in place.
When a plan is delayed or fails, we typically immediately identify the cause and take immediate action to remedy the situation, or learn from the experience and lessons learned to prepare for the next plan. We don't immediately try to shirk responsibility or find excuses for the failure.

=============================
You can recheck your text. It's filled with future tense words like "will," "maybe," and "if," as well as uncertainty.
As for other details, I will not go into them here.

I mean no harm. If this makes you feel bad, then it must be a mistake in the translation software......LOL

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both major clients of China's arms trade. In China, customers are our bread and butter.

These are very honest and straightforward answers, hopefully the forum takes them in the spirit that they are intended

The Chinese are careful and sagacious thinkers, sometimes generalities are helpful enough to get the point across, certainly China has proved this to be true with the progress we can see


Therefore, I have to concur that there is a tendency for wishful thinking that is very very hard to shake off, I think there are cultural elements at play, where there is less tolerance for bombastic behavior and more emphasis on collective harmony. As well as this, the Chinese education system is vigorous and therefore progression does not allow bombastic or loosely considered wording, I enjoy your contributions personally.

 

[clutch]

Was he accompanied by the Asim Munir as well?

 

[RescueRanger]

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#Nocomment.

 

[Yasser76]

This is the biggest difference between Chinese and Pakistani culture.

Chinese people generally dislike using future tense words like "maybe," "will," and "soon."
When making future plans, we tend to consider all possible scenarios for failure and develop contingency plans. In other words, we tend to think in terms of the worst-case scenario, not the best-case scenario.
Once we finalize a plan and begin executing it, we strive to achieve it at all costs. Our greatest wish is that all backup measures remain in place.
When a plan is delayed or fails, we typically immediately identify the cause and take immediate action to remedy the situation, or learn from the experience and lessons learned to prepare for the next plan. We don't immediately try to shirk responsibility or find excuses for the failure.

=============================
You can recheck your text. It's filled with future tense words like "will," "maybe," and "if," as well as uncertainty.
As for other details, I will not go into them here.

I mean no harm. If this makes you feel bad, then it must be a mistake in the translation software......LOL

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both major clients of China's arms trade. In China, customers are our bread and butter.

Sorry Micheal

In this case you simply do not know enough about the dynamics and countries of the middle east and their relations with Pakistan. Rather then admit that you seem to make it personal about my feelings, I could not care less, I do not feel bad, but feeling bad would be a far sight better then actually being ingorant on a subject matter, and it really is funny how your "translation software" is always to blame when you get caught out.

As for Chinese people disliking future tense words, maybe spend more time engaging with your nationalist country men online, you will experiance many predictions. Even Xi is setting a date "soon" when China can take Taiwan. So maybe you need to send him a memo too?

 

[MH.Yang]

Michael - Per your posts in the past 36 hours:
1) Pakistan will be self destructed if it acquired more conventional weapons from China!
2)We (Pakistanis) don't know if we'll eat a second meal and yet, we want Rolls Royce!
3) Just now on another thread you told someone that Pakistan doesn't have the infrastructure to get DF-17 and to use it!

I like your other analysis and I always include you into my posts. There are people I don't care to include. But you need to mellow down a little and come to reality. You are talking about a country not a toy shop.

We are the 5th largest population in the world and sooner or later, we'll grow. There IS NO reason why we can't beat a much smaller population than us called South Korea. They grew on our economic plans that we gave them! I am sure you didn't know this.

Now to answer ALL your posts given above:

Pakistan is a nuclear nation, we have a bad economy and it's getting fixed. In two years, we'll be getting additional billions in revenue for our Gold and Mineral sales. Things will be different very soon.

If we can manage and secure nukes for 27 years, a massive nuke arsenal, we can ALSO buy conventional weapons. There is no such thing as "self destruction" or "not knowing if we'll eat a second meal".

- DF-17's are missiles like the rest of other missiles. They are setup on a TEL. We provide target coordinates to the missile and fuel and it's internal processing chipset does the rest upon launch. We don't need "space ships" to launch it like you claimed "Pakistan doesn't have the capability to launch DF-17" on that other thread.

- We've helped Saudia before. In Gulf War, we told the world if Mecca and Medina are attacked, they will be defended directly by the Pakistani army and we deployed a sizable force there. That can happen again. We already train Arab forces in certain areas..

- Saudi - Turkey conflict? Yea, old news! Saudia has committed to buy near 100 KAAN jets and have become the largest buyers and soon to be manufacturer of one of Turkish HALE UAC systems.

Saudia if use wisdom for its own benefits, can help stand two defense industries, Turkey and Pakistan, both will benefit it. And REMEMBER my post from that day. PFX will definitely have a 5th gen component!

Saudi Arabia's relationship with Turkey is no better than its relationship with Iran. Even there's still potential for improvement in Saudi Arabia's relationship with Iran, the poor relationship between Saudi Arabia and Turkey stems from structural geostrategic conflicts, making improvement extremely difficult.

Geopolitically, Saudi Arabia's goal is to confront Iran while maintaining its traditional leadership in the Arab world. Turkey's goal, on the other hand, is to actively intervene in Middle Eastern affairs and seize Saudi Arabia's regional dominance. The contradiction between the two is vividly demonstrated in their different positions in the Syrian war, their different positions in the Qatar diplomatic crisis, and their different attitudes towards the Muslim Brotherhood.

In terms of religion, Saudi Arabia is the guardian of the holy sites and represents the conservative Wahhabi school. Turkey, citing its status as the successor to the Ottoman Empire, promotes an image of moderate Islam, competing with Saudi Arabia for Sunni dominance and influence. This is evidenced by the relative support Pakistanis show for Turkey and Saudi Arabia. And guess which country's propaganda is behind the widespread smear campaign against the Gulf states among some Pakistanis?

The 2018 Khashoggi assassination was the main trigger for the deterioration of relations between the two countries. The Saudi government has consistently denied assassinating Khashoggi, while Türkiye has continued to exert diplomatic and public pressure and provided evidence to Western media.

With all due respect, Islamic nations are plagued by conflict, making unity difficult. China expended considerable political resources to foster reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, but less than a year after establishing diplomatic ties, the situation ended with the assassination of President Raisi. If the Islamic world truly desires to unite and establish a military alliance, there is only one way: to place the only Islamic nation with nuclear weapons and relatively normal relations with Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey at its core, with its closest allies China providing support. Only in this way can success be achieved. But from my observations during this period, the people of this country are extremely reluctant to get involved in the conflict between Middle Eastern countries and Israel.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Probably piloted by Pakistani pilots

NO WAY ... No PAF pilots operate F15s in Saudia Arabia. Those days are gone !

 

[mythbuster]

Prime Minister Shahbaz Shariff's airplane Pakistan ONE was greeted by nearly 6 F-15's upon entering the Saudi airspace. It was then escorted by the Royal Saudi airforce jets all the way to Riyadh until landing.

Shahbaz Shariff went to Saudi Arabia by MBS's special invite in Doha yesterday. Some sources suggest talks about joint defense deal will take place with Pakistan military's bigger role similar to how Pakistan and Turkey are cooperating. More updates will be posted to the thread on further details as they come after the meeting.

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If some kind of defence pact takes place , what shape and form it will possibly be ?

 

[mythbuster]

Saudi Arabia's relationship with Turkey is no better than its relationship with Iran. Even there's still potential for improvement in Saudi Arabia's relationship with Iran, the poor relationship between Saudi Arabia and Turkey stems from structural geostrategic conflicts, making improvement extremely difficult.

Geopolitically, Saudi Arabia's goal is to confront Iran while maintaining its traditional leadership in the Arab world. Turkey's goal, on the other hand, is to actively intervene in Middle Eastern affairs and seize Saudi Arabia's regional dominance. The contradiction between the two is vividly demonstrated in their different positions in the Syrian war, their different positions in the Qatar diplomatic crisis, and their different attitudes towards the Muslim Brotherhood.

In terms of religion, Saudi Arabia is the guardian of the holy sites and represents the conservative Wahhabi school. Turkey, citing its status as the successor to the Ottoman Empire, promotes an image of moderate Islam, competing with Saudi Arabia for Sunni dominance and influence. This is evidenced by the relative support Pakistanis show for Turkey and Saudi Arabia. And guess which country's propaganda is behind the widespread smear campaign against the Gulf states among some Pakistanis?

The 2018 Khashoggi assassination was the main trigger for the deterioration of relations between the two countries. The Saudi government has consistently denied assassinating Khashoggi, while Türkiye has continued to exert diplomatic and public pressure and provided evidence to Western media.

With all due respect, Islamic nations are plagued by conflict, making unity difficult. China expended considerable political resources to foster reconciliation between Saudi Arabia and Iran, but less than a year after establishing diplomatic ties, the situation ended with the assassination of President Raisi. If the Islamic world truly desires to unite and establish a military alliance, there is only one way: to place the only Islamic nation with nuclear weapons and relatively normal relations with Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey at its core, with its closest allies China providing support. Only in this way can success be achieved. But from my observations during this period, the people of this country are extremely reluctant to get involved in the conflict between Middle Eastern countries and Israel.

Few months ago I wrote , on this forum, in catagorical terms that it's not south china sea anymore it's middle east that's becoming the playground between China and America .... Pakistan is going to be Chinese spear in the region.... it's not going to happen overnight, give it a few years.

 

[mythbuster]

If some kind of defence pact takes place , what shape and form it will possibly be ?

Never mind raja , I read your later posts and where you stand.

 

[side-winder]

What's really going on.

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[hasssanali8998]

Was he accompanied by the Whiskey as well?

does it matter , we dont really care

 

[maxpane]

this time Pakistan should not fall back . if there is no stable middle east then next strike would ve on us. we are inseprabale . we live we die together. we like it or not its reality

 

[Distant_Observer]

This is the biggest difference between Chinese and Pakistani culture.

Chinese people generally dislike using future tense words like "maybe," "will," and "soon."
When making future plans, we tend to consider all possible scenarios for failure and develop contingency plans. In other words, we tend to think in terms of the worst-case scenario, not the best-case scenario.
Once we finalize a plan and begin executing it, we strive to achieve it at all costs. Our greatest wish is that all backup measures remain in place.
When a plan is delayed or fails, we typically immediately identify the cause and take immediate action to remedy the situation, or learn from the experience and lessons learned to prepare for the next plan. We don't immediately try to shirk responsibility or find excuses for the failure.

=============================
You can recheck your text. It's filled with future tense words like "will," "maybe," and "if," as well as uncertainty.
As for other details, I will not go into them here.

I mean no harm. If this makes you feel bad, then it must be a mistake in the translation software......LOL

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both major clients of China's arms trade. In China, customers are our bread and butter.

Pakistan is the insurance policy for the middle east. A growing Israel makes this even more vital for them. So Israel gaining strength, strengthens Pakistan. What an interesting convergence.

Pakistan is the Muslim military superpower and China is a global hyperpower. Both will tag team their way towards dominance. Just let Pakistan come of age and it will all make sense. A win for Pakistan is a win for China and vice versa.

 

[RajaBaja]

This is the biggest difference between Chinese and Pakistani culture.

Chinese people generally dislike using future tense words like "maybe," "will," and "soon."
When making future plans, we tend to consider all possible scenarios for failure and develop contingency plans. In other words, we tend to think in terms of the worst-case scenario, not the best-case scenario.
Once we finalize a plan and begin executing it, we strive to achieve it at all costs. Our greatest wish is that all backup measures remain in place.
When a plan is delayed or fails, we typically immediately identify the cause and take immediate action to remedy the situation, or learn from the experience and lessons learned to prepare for the next plan. We don't immediately try to shirk responsibility or find excuses for the failure.

=============================
You can recheck your text. It's filled with future tense words like "will," "maybe," and "if," as well as uncertainty.
As for other details, I will not go into them here.

I mean no harm. If this makes you feel bad, then it must be a mistake in the translation software......LOL

Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are both major clients of China's arms trade. In China, customers are our bread and butter.

Well, I am sorry if the Chinese don't speak or write that way. 7.5 billion - 1.5 = 5 BILLION do write this way. It's called English, which is our second language and official also. So we do what the rest of the world does, and we are the 9th largest English speaking population in the world I believe.

The Chinese also want to join the rest of the 5 billion people. You should check out Chinese immigration rates to US, Canada, Australia and to even the UK, as well as home ownership in these countries. Every rich Chinese buys a home there. So I suggest you join the majority of the world also instead of living in a bubble and write like the rest of the world.

And I expect you will not write anymore insulting comments towards Pakistan. I've traveled the world enough including China, I know many things that won't look good in writing as I respect China a lot.

@MH.Yang @nang2 Kindly give Michael a bit council on not writing insults towards Pakistan or Pakistanis. It's not the AI software. You have to say something insulting to AI for it to translate that way.

 

[Dalit]

You're really too much of a fantasist. You're always making wild guesses and daydreams that have no practical significance. However, you're so active in PDF that I can't bear to criticize you.

1、Did you know that there is a fundamental conflict between Saudi Arabia and Türkiye? The conflict between them is far greater than the conflict between China and Türkiye.

2. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia: A military alliance? Who helps whom? Pakistan itself is in a precarious state. To whom can it provide military protection?

Guys. Take a break.

Pakistan can provide a lot to the Saudis. Manpower and above all unity in the Islamic world. More than anything, the Islamic world needs to unite and cooperate.