Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[030292]

I will bet my left arm - that if a similar "climb aboard" situation happens in Pakistan as it did in Afghanistan or Vietnam - those planes would fill so much they would not take off.

The problem is that those that stay behind are branded as terrorists because they want more from the state than merely being guns for hire by gcc and yanks.

 

[Oscar]

The problem is that those that stay behind are branded as terrorists because they want more from the state than merely being guns for hire by gcc and yanks.

Which is also valid - A lot of people who stay are not simple, not sold, and not waiting for a ticket. They want a state that does more than manage crises and export labour. They want schools that work, hospitals that don’t humiliate you, a police that isn’t a daily rishwat "tax" , a future for their kids that doesn’t depend on a visa lottery. Wanting that is not betrayal. It is the most normal political demand in any country.

Pakistan’s discourse is lazy and cruel in cycles. Dissent gets smeared. People asking for a fuller social contract get painted as anti-state, foreign-funded, or “fitna,” while the only patriotism some loud voices recognise is silence, slogans, or usefulness to someone else’s security agenda. That is a sickness in our political language. A citizen is not a terrorist because he refuses to accept that the country’s highest purpose is to be manpower for the Gulf or a file in someone else’s war.

A Pakistani state worthy of the name is not doomed to only two ugly scripts. It does not have to live as hired muscle or convenient manpower for the GCC and the Americans... AND it also does not have to get pulled into Iranian proxy contests because a sectarian politics has been captured and instrumentalized from outside. Both are forms of outsourcing the country’s purpose. Both reduce citizens to tools in other people’s rivalries.

Ordinary people who reject that and who want Pakistan to be a normal state for its own public, not a front line in someone else’s sectarian or great-power game are not traitors. They are asking for sovereignty in the only sense that matters day to day: policy shaped by our own social contract, not by whoever is paying, pressuring, or preaching loudest this year.

Not everyone who leaves is a mercenary for foreign powers, and not everyone who stays is automatically the moral center. Plenty leave because the state failed them in ordinary ways in terms of jobs, schools, safety, dignity and not because they wanted to become hired guns. Plenty stay because of family, property, love of place, or majboori, not only because they are holding a noble line.

If we flatten leavers into sellouts and stayers into branded victims, we recreate the same cartoon politics that already damages us.

Read the airport example as a warning about how thin the bargain has become for too many. The answer is not to romanticize exit, and not to romanticize suffering at home either. It is to build a Pakistan where capable people don’t need foreign insurance or pacts to raise their children and where wanting that does not get you put in a suspect box.

That - would take seriously strong arguments to disagree with.

 

[030292]

Which is also valid - A lot of people who stay are not simple, not sold, and not waiting for a ticket. They want a state that does more than manage crises and export labour. They want schools that work, hospitals that don’t humiliate you, a police that isn’t a daily rishwat "tax" , a future for their kids that doesn’t depend on a visa lottery. Wanting that is not betrayal. It is the most normal political demand in any country.

Pakistan’s discourse is lazy and cruel in cycles. Dissent gets smeared. People asking for a fuller social contract get painted as anti-state, foreign-funded, or “fitna,” while the only patriotism some loud voices recognise is silence, slogans, or usefulness to someone else’s security agenda. That is a sickness in our political language. A citizen is not a terrorist because he refuses to accept that the country’s highest purpose is to be manpower for the Gulf or a file in someone else’s war.

A Pakistani state worthy of the name is not doomed to only two ugly scripts. It does not have to live as hired muscle or convenient manpower for the GCC and the Americans... AND it also does not have to get pulled into Iranian proxy contests because a sectarian politics has been captured and instrumentalized from outside. Both are forms of outsourcing the country’s purpose. Both reduce citizens to tools in other people’s rivalries.

Ordinary people who reject that and who want Pakistan to be a normal state for its own public, not a front line in someone else’s sectarian or great-power game are not traitors. They are asking for sovereignty in the only sense that matters day to day: policy shaped by our own social contract, not by whoever is paying, pressuring, or preaching loudest this year.

Not everyone who leaves is a mercenary for foreign powers, and not everyone who stays is automatically the moral center. Plenty leave because the state failed them in ordinary ways in terms of jobs, schools, safety, dignity and not because they wanted to become hired guns. Plenty stay because of family, property, love of place, or majboori, not only because they are holding a noble line.

If we flatten leavers into sellouts and stayers into branded victims, we recreate the same cartoon politics that already damages us.

Read the airport example as a warning about how thin the bargain has become for too many. The answer is not to romanticize exit, and not to romanticize suffering at home either. It is to build a Pakistan where capable people don’t need foreign insurance or pacts to raise their children and where wanting that does not get you put in a suspect box.

That - would take seriously strong arguments to disagree with.

Thank you so much for investing the time to comprehensively reply to my post, really appreciate that sir.

 

[Mobius]

Saudis preparing a land and sea offensive on Yemen.

Saudi Arabia prepares sea and possible land offensive against Houthis

Yemeni sources say Saudis concentrating forces for what could be attack in central Yemen

www.theguardian.com

Doing the dirty work for the Zionists. Won't be long before the Najdi Saudi Kingdom cripples into the garbage bin of history.

 

[Starlord]

Unfortunately - that is what is missed.
The same Iranians certain quarters of society are cheering for (in certain cases rightly due to how the conflict was imposed by Israel) is THE SAME IRAN that a few years ago was actively letting India operate networks on its soil against Pakistan.

That is also the same Iran that launched an attack on Pakistan ---

And to go further, also the same Iran that Pakistan was allowing groups on its soil to forment issues for - and also the same Iran that Pakistan was against in Afghanistan in certain areas and cooperating in certain areas.

Also the same Iran that was using its self claimed hold over a sect to push hundreds of Pakistanis into its proxy wars and even fund them.

And you can take that and apply that in various ways across for UAE - Qatar - and so on.

Nothing is a zero sum game here and no claims of "ordinary" Pakistanis work because ordinary Pakistanis will curse the US and then gulp McDonalds while leaving everybody in the dust if ever green cards are handed out.

However, states do not have friends nor enemies - they have timed interests that go beyond generations.

Funny thing is that both Iranians and Arabs, demand absolute loyalty and what we call in Urdu "Jee Huzori" from our wanna Persians/Arabs, like you can condemn the war that was impose on Iran which is right for months on but the moment you start questioning Iran's method you get attacked by Iranian members and Pakistani's (wanna be Persians) as Zionists/Israel slave etc, same with Arabs.. you can show them your support but the moment you point towards their inaction over Gaza Genocide and complicity in Iran war, they lose their marbels and attack you as Anti-Arab, Iranian slave etc.

And cheery on top when no matter what Pakistani govt does wrt to middle somehow become a barking match between the 2 sides of Pakistan, wanna be Persians/wanna be Arabs. While both would treat the Pakistan and Pakistani's as shit. literally koi auqaat hi nai hai, when this war will over Arabs will go back to unconditionally support their countries, and Iran will get back to their blind ultra nationalism, meanwhile we will have our own Pakistani Chutiya's still fighting like Rabid dogs, over who is who's slave. And then we wonder why Pakistan is in such a mess, why we have 2 states and its people blowing rest of the Pakistan up, we are becoming more and more like Afghans, not a nation but a rabid hoard of jahil Gunwaar mob and brain dead zombies which are exploited by politicians, Generals, Foreign powers and leaders... BSDK apne mulk ki maa behn ker dengay un logo ke liye jo in ko pani na den if we are dying of thirst.

 

[PK781]

Say what you want about them, but always there for us

Saudi Arabia rolls over $5bn deposits with Pakistan for three years

FY27 debt servicing requirement declines.SBP interbank purchases reach $28bn.Foreign reserves stand at $22.6bn.ISLAMABAD: Saudi Arabia has rolled over $5 billion in deposits for three years, top officials confirmed on Wednesday.

www.geo.tv

Never disappointed from the land of the Holy Prophet PBUH. Always a sign our Prophet PBUH cares about us(Pakistan).

 

[PK781]

Doing the dirty work for the Zionists. Won't be long before the Najdi Saudi Kingdom cripples into the garbage bin of history.

Bhai entire middle east leaderships are all najdi. I remember Prof Abdul Salam Arif mentioning it in one of his recent lectures.
Because the arab leaders have totally deviated from the advice of the Holy Prophet pbuh, now unfortunately neither time nor anything else is on their side. They’re refusing to self-correct themselves even after all this.

 

[Sparten]

I dont share your optimism nor do many on the ground - but as they say "umeed pay duniya qaim hai""

Its not optimism its hard headed realism.

 

[KingQamaR]

One of the reasons Saudi Arabia has historically relied heavily on foreign military support is because the ruling establishment has always been cautious about building a fully centralised and powerful army that could eventually threaten the monarchy through a coup. That's also why the security structure is divided among different forces rather than concentrated under one command. If this situation continues, it seems the UAE and Israel may end up having greater influence in the region.

 

[mythbuster]

Doing the dirty work for the Zionists. Won't be long before the Najdi Saudi Kingdom cripples into the garbage bin of history.

You want to replace it with Ayatullahs from Qom ? ... you can spin but you can't hide the devil in you

 

[mythbuster]

Its not optimism its hard headed realism.

Let's coin a new phrase optirealism .

 

[El Sidd]

You want to replace it with Ayatullahs from Qom ? ... you can spin but you can't hide the devil in you

For Sufi followers, it is a religious obligation to oppose Arab states.

 

[mythbuster]

For Sufi followers, it is a religious obligation to oppose Arab states.

Since when Ayatullahs have become suffis?