Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[gamaji]

Utterly wrong and a very flawed understanding of losing talent.

First, brain drain is not merely about raw numbers of people leaving; it is about the quality and type of talent that departs and the capacity of the country to replace that talent with equal or better skilled individuals.

Pakistan may have a large population, but the proportion of highly educated, specialized, and experienced professionals emigrating is significant enough to cause pronounced skill shortages in critical sectors like healthcare, engineering, education, and technology. The assumption that one job vacancy is met by a thousand equivalent resumes disregards the fact that not all resumes are equal in skills, training, or experience.

Quantity does not replace quality. Or are you now going to argue that 5 F-7Ps are a cheaper better alternative to J-10s? What is good for the goose is good for the gander and Pakistan is not producing enough J-10s.

Second, the argument that population growth compensates for brain drain ignores the educational and economic infrastructure constraints in Pakistan.

Producing highly skilled professionals requires more than just large population numbers(unless you are suggesting Pakistani wombs are producing geniunes who like Hazrat Issa come literate on day 1)

It demands quality education, research opportunities, professional development, and economic ecosystems that can absorb and nurture these talents. Without investment in these areas, the supply of skilled workers remains inadequate, regardless of population size.

Third, the comparison with countries like India, China, and the Philippines is misleading. These countries have benefited from exponential return migration and active diaspora engagement, which Pakistan lacks to a significant degree. Many Indian and Chinese expatriates return with enhanced skills, capital, and networks, and robust policies encourage this.

In contrast, Pakistan’s political instability, weak institutions, and limited economic incentives reduce the likelihood of skilled professionals returning or engaging positively to foster growth domestically. Infact when they try to return with investment they are instead met with asks for bribes or worse to facilitate their investment.

Fourth, relying on diaspora influence abroad as a substitute for domestic brain capacity is idealistic but unrealistic. While diaspora engagement can help, it cannot replace the on-ground presence of skilled professionals who innovate, lead, and develop institutions within the country. The idea that simply "a few million leaving" creates influence dishonestly ignores the damage caused when those millions are not replaced by similarly capable individuals.

Finally, the your dismissing of the issue as "political drama" without logic is in itself illogical.

Global research and Pakistan-specific data show brain drain creates systemic challenges. These include critical shortages in healthcare workers, reduced research and development capacity, and weakened governance structures. Ignoring these facts hampers any meaningful discussion on developmental policies.

I think it's all talk unless some real statistics come out showing what exactly is the effect of the so-called brain drain on Pakistan, especially the flagship institutes.

Apparently it has no significant effect on military related institutions. Pakistan continues progressing well in R&D, making significant strides in new areas, and churning out a number of new or improved systems/products. The only example of a failure might be the Azm project and still there is apparently no evidence in public domain pointing to ist failure merely due to brain drain.

 

[Distant_Observer]

Utterly wrong and a very flawed understanding of losing talent.

First, brain drain is not merely about raw numbers of people leaving; it is about the quality and type of talent that departs and the capacity of the country to replace that talent with equal or better skilled individuals.

Pakistan may have a large population, but the proportion of highly educated, specialized, and experienced professionals emigrating is significant enough to cause pronounced skill shortages in critical sectors like healthcare, engineering, education, and technology. The assumption that one job vacancy is met by a thousand equivalent resumes disregards the fact that not all resumes are equal in skills, training, or experience.

Quantity does not replace quality. Or are you now going to argue that 5 F-7Ps are a cheaper better alternative to J-10s? What is good for the goose is good for the gander and Pakistan is not producing enough J-10s.

Second, the argument that population growth compensates for brain drain ignores the educational and economic infrastructure constraints in Pakistan.

Producing highly skilled professionals requires more than just large population numbers(unless you are suggesting Pakistani wombs are producing geniunes who like Hazrat Issa come literate on day 1)

It demands quality education, research opportunities, professional development, and economic ecosystems that can absorb and nurture these talents. Without investment in these areas, the supply of skilled workers remains inadequate, regardless of population size.

Third, the comparison with countries like India, China, and the Philippines is misleading. These countries have benefited from exponential return migration and active diaspora engagement, which Pakistan lacks to a significant degree. Many Indian and Chinese expatriates return with enhanced skills, capital, and networks, and robust policies encourage this.

In contrast, Pakistan’s political instability, weak institutions, and limited economic incentives reduce the likelihood of skilled professionals returning or engaging positively to foster growth domestically. Infact when they try to return with investment they are instead met with asks for bribes or worse to facilitate their investment.

Fourth, relying on diaspora influence abroad as a substitute for domestic brain capacity is idealistic but unrealistic. While diaspora engagement can help, it cannot replace the on-ground presence of skilled professionals who innovate, lead, and develop institutions within the country. The idea that simply "a few million leaving" creates influence dishonestly ignores the damage caused when those millions are not replaced by similarly capable individuals.

Finally, the your dismissing of the issue as "political drama" without logic is in itself illogical.

Global research and Pakistan-specific data show brain drain creates systemic challenges. These include critical shortages in healthcare workers, reduced research and development capacity, and weakened governance structures. Ignoring these facts hampers any meaningful discussion on developmental policies.

Take one look at Pakistan's exports and there is definitely no brains to drain.

If they can get their average IQ up to triple figures then maybe but we are atleast 20-30 years away if all goes well.

 

[maverick]

If Pakistan can use this opportunity to expand its military footprint and show itself to be an effective security provider...
...then more countries would want to join..like Qatar for example.

If Pakistan squanders this...and is shown to be an ineffective security provider...then not only would this fall apart...it will shut the door on any future such opportunities.

have u ever seen anything meaningful or an opportunity given to pakistan, they benefit it for their country , i am afraid the same personal benefits will be collected in this guise

 

[maverick]

Unconfirmed some of the details
Pakistan will deploy 50,000 troops in Saudi Arabia. The defence of Makkah and Madinah will be the sole responsibility of the Pakistan Armed Forces. Pakistan will also establish five missile regiments and set up a modern air-defence system. An air-communication system will be established — for this, Pakistan has already struck a deal to buy twenty satellites from China at a cost of $406 million. New airbases will also be built.

Pakistan will play a role in protecting Saudi oil-supply routes. A Pakistan-Saudi joint command-and-control system will be created. Through the air-communication system the whole region will be monitored. Missile regiments will include ballistic and cruise missiles as well as the Ababeel missile, which can engage 13 targets simultaneously.

Pakistani JF-17 Thunder and J-10C aircraft will also be integrated into the Saudi Air Force. In the event one country is attacked, there will be no need to request assistance from the other — under the joint command-and-control system both countries’ forces will move together.

A delegation of Pakistani officials will arrive in Saudi Arabia in a few days to begin work. The entire plan is expected to be completed within one year, God willing.

May Allah protect both brotherly countries, which are about to become a living example of unity and single resolve. Amen — O Lord of the Worlds.

Saudi command and control should stay where it is, another command joint command and comtrol JCC should be setup with new infra, the other infra is US based and compromised..
i am sure they are smart enough to know this, lol

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Pakistan continues progressing well in R&D, making significant strides in new areas, and churning out a number of new or improved systems/products.

Apparently it has no significant effect on military related institutions.

Can you give some top 10 or any number of examples of R&D and what strides we made in last 5 to 10 years? Remember we are a nation of 250 million people who pay most of their budget to only defense.

Also country has gazillion other areas and not just "military related" stuff to do. What about brain drain & the lack of progress in other areas ? That's supposedly if we are doing wonders in military research, which we obviously are not. Example of Turkey is in front of us.

 

[gamaji]

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[Distant_Observer]

Can you give some top 10 or any number of examples of R&D and what strides we made in last 5 to 10 years? Remember we are a nation of 250 million people who pay most of their budget to only defense.

Also country has gazillion other areas and not just "military related" stuff to do. What about brain drain & the lack of progress in other areas ? That's supposedly if we are doing wonders in military research, which we obviously are not. Example of Turkey is in front of us.

One of Pakistans main exports are donkeys What are you expecting?

Just dig them damn rocks out from the ground and sell them, that's how we will make it.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

One of Pakistans main exports are donkeys What are you expecting?

Just dig them damn rocks out from the ground and sell them, that's how we will make it.

LOL! you might have said this in sarcasm but its going to be the case literally!

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[PaklovesTurkiye]

LONG LIVE THE KING!!!

Pakistan without nukes is unthinkable

 

[Oscar]

I think it's all talk unless some real statistics come out showing what exactly is the effect of the so-called brain drain on Pakistan, especially the flagship institutes.

Apparently it has no significant effect on military related institutions. Pakistan continues progressing well in R&D, making significant strides in new areas, and churning out a number of new or improved systems/products. The only example of a failure might be the Azm project and still there is apparently no evidence in public domain pointing to ist failure merely due to brain drain.

In 2022 alone, over 832,000 highly qualified professionals emigrated, including doctors, engineers, researchers, and IT experts, which has negatively impacted research productivity and academic institutions.

Using the military as an example shows the myopia and ignorance involved in what constitutes a nation and development.

Let’s talk to the “progression” in R&D which ironically you only see AZM as one. @JamD - I feel tired with these folks but why not because they haven’t been exposed to the black hole.

Multiple missile projects including both medium range and long range systems that never left the labs because expertise did not exist or left and basically ToT had to be done by sending engineers abroad to assemble things which they are incapable of inventing. This includes multiple failures in the entire Hatf lineup that are undeclared mostly because you did not have skilled personnel who could identify issues.

Nodong(Ghauri) repeatedly unable to function in operational capacity which required complete “origin country” personnel because you had none.

Babur failures and Tercom delays due to members of original guidance team moving abroad.

Gidhs losing multiples of UAVs over the years because one of their key aerodynamics experts moved to Bombardier and your magic “factory” had no one to replace him with

JF-17 complete failure of displays - key personnel had moved on while Chinese were not forthcoming.

First JF-17 crash because PAF no longer had the right experts and tried to bolt on systems which led to wing ripping apart in high G.

and I havent even listed all the various Pakistani published research papers on how many IT projects have failed due to lack of skilled personnel.

As for military functioning - lol
Rag tag Talibunnies massacred scores of your “functioning” military picking them off in duck shoots and you’re saying there isn’t any loss of skills.

No difference in Bhaktora mentality when they say everything is ok and this

 

[lightning f57]

Some "pipe dreams" only look good hanging on the walls. Majority of the artists who made the best art work were either drunk during creation or high on drugs. So this may be a result of such creativity.

One should never underestimate the hindutva dreams, them and the zionists are loyal friends have this entitlement like all the land is theirs given to them by the almighty himself. These delusional maniacs are dangerous.

 

[gamaji]

700 Pakistanis serving in Israeli army? This shocking claim made by a famous Pakistani vlogger. If true, that poses a grave national security threat for Pakistan.

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[gamaji]

In 2022 alone, over 832,000 highly qualified professionals emigrated, including doctors, engineers, researchers, and IT experts, which has negatively impacted research productivity and academic institutions.

Using the military as an example shows the myopia and ignorance involved in what constitutes a nation and development.

Let’s talk to the “progression” in R&D which ironically you only see AZM as one. @JamD - I feel tired with these folks but why not because they haven’t been exposed to the black hole.

Multiple missile projects including both medium range and long range systems that never left the labs because expertise did not exist or left and basically ToT had to be done by sending engineers abroad to assemble things which they are incapable of inventing. This includes multiple failures in the entire Hatf lineup that are undeclared mostly because you did not have skilled personnel who could identify issues.

Nodong(Ghauri) repeatedly unable to function in operational capacity which required complete “origin country” personnel because you had none.

Babur failures and Tercom delays due to members of original guidance team moving abroad.

Gidhs losing multiples of UAVs over the years because one of their key aerodynamics experts moved to Bombardier and your magic “factory” had no one to replace him with

JF-17 complete failure of displays - key personnel had moved on while Chinese were not forthcoming.

First JF-17 crash because PAF no longer had the right experts and tried to bolt on systems which led to wing ripping apart in high G.

and I havent even listed all the various Pakistani published research papers on how many IT projects have failed due to lack of skilled personnel.

As for military functioning - lol
Rag tag Talibunnies massacred scores of your “functioning” military picking them off in duck shoots and you’re saying there isn’t any loss of skills.

No difference in Bhaktora mentality when they say everything is ok and this

Thanks for a detailed response. I am in no way in a position to verify or counter your claims.

If all that you have said is true then it's very shocking to say the least.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

700 Pakistanis serving in Israeli army? This shocking claim made by a famous Pakistani vlogger. If true, that poses a grave national security threat for Pakistan.

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OMG! who on their right mind can listen to this guy? Can't you see sorry state of his intellectual level from the thumbnails .

 

[Liquidator]

A shame the Muslims didn't do this sooner. We should have had this zeal 10 years ago.....worked together to contain the rabid dog of the imperialist terrorists sooner.

My fear is it may be too late...I pray that I am wrong. Whatever happens, the death of Gaza will haunt us for eternity. We deserve nothing but misery for allowing it....

Glory to Palestine