Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion
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Cash gk
Elite Member
If you still think that if it not true what they are doing then you are idiot
The SC
INT'L MOD
Why is the defense agreement between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia worrying India?
When Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif met Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Riyadh last week, the message was clear: the meeting came after the signing of a "joint strategic defense" agreement that brought the only nuclear-armed Islamic state closer to the most ambitious Gulf kingdom.
A senior Saudi official told Reuters that the agreement was merely "an institutional framework for long and deep cooperation," but many in India saw it differently.
Despite the warmth of relations that New Delhi sought to establish with Riyadh, the agreement came at a time of escalating hostility with Pakistan, including a four-day dispute at the beginning of the year. The two nuclear-armed countries have long fought wars and clashes over Kashmir, making any Saudi move to support the Pakistani military a direct concern for India.
What bothers Indian analysts most is the agreement's text that "any attack on either country will be considered an attack on both."
Indian strategist Brahma Chilani wrote on the X platform: "Riyadh knew that India would interpret the agreement as a direct threat to its security, yet it went ahead with it". He added that the move reflects Saudi Arabia's ambitions more than it reflects the strength of Pakistan, which is suffering from a stifling economic crisis. It links a "chronicly dependent" partner that gives Riyadh manpower and nuclear security, and sends a message to India, Washington and others that it is on an independent path.
Former Indian Foreign Minister Kanwal Sibal considered the agreement a "serious mistake" by Saudi Arabia, warning of its serious repercussions on Indian national security. He wrote: "Politically unstable and economically bankrupt Pakistan cannot be a provider of security, and Saudi Arabia knows that this step will be considered a direct threat in New Delhi".
On the other hand, Narendra Modi's government took a more cautious stance, as the Foreign Ministry spokesman merely stressed that the government "will study the repercussions of the agreement on national security and regional and international stability", expressing New Delhi's hope that the strategic partnership with Saudi Arabia will take into account "mutual interests and sensitivities".
However, some analysts believe that India may overestimate the risks, noting that Riyadh is keen on balance in its relations, as India is its second largest trading partner and one of the most important buyers of Saudi oil.
American expert Michael Kugelman downplayed the threat, stressing that the agreement "does not directly hinder India", and that Saudi Arabia "will not undertake hostile actions against New Delhi", but he added that Pakistan's integration into the Middle East security system "restricts India" and gives its neighbor three main supporting parties: China, Turkey, and now Saudi Arabia.
On the other hand, others believe that the importance of the agreement does not lie in the direct threat to India, but rather in reshaping regional alignments.
Former Pakistani Ambassador Hussain Haqqani, a researcher at the Hudson Institute in Washington and the Anwar Gargash Academy in Abu Dhabi, said India's concerns were spread across "multiple fronts." He warned that the agreement could transform Saudi Arabia into what the United States represented to Pakistan during the Cold War: "a country with the economic power to help Pakistan build its army to compete with India".
But other researchers, such as Mudather Qamar of Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, stress that the agreement is nothing but a reformulation of defense relations that have been entrenched since the 1960s. Riyadh also relied on Pakistani officers to build its air force, bought weapons from Islamabad, and in 2017 hired a retired Pakistani chief of staff to lead its coalition against ISIS.
Experts point out that Saudi Arabia has supported Pakistan economically and militarily for decades, from deferred oil aid to siding with Islamabad in the 1965 and 1971 wars against India.
On a broader level, the agreement also reflects the decline in Gulf confidence in the American security umbrella, especially after the recent Israeli attack that shook Qatar and other Gulf countries, and increased doubts about Washington's ability to ensure the security of the region in the face of Iran.
Ahmed Abboudouh, a researcher at Chatham House and the UAE Policy Centre, believes the deal aims to "send a message that Saudi Arabia is diversifying its security partnerships without compromising its defence cooperation with the United States," noting that Riyadh now sees both Iran and Israel as a threat and is taking advantage of Pakistan's nuclear power to bolster deterrence.
For India, the real risks may be in broader repercussions: an Islamic security alliance similar to a potential "Islamic NATO" is hampering its strategy to expand westward in the areas of trade, investment and strategic corridors in the Gulf.
Pakistan, on the other hand, is betting on Saudi Arabia's weight to bolster its military capabilities and political influence to gain broader support, leaving India facing not only its traditional rival but a broader coalition of Muslim countries.
Although the agreement may not represent a direct military threat to India in the near term, it has weakened its diplomatic image, while how it will interact in the future remains subject to developments, which New Delhi is closely monitoring.
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
With every passing day the necessity of this pact is getting even more clearer. The USA has entered into a phase of internal chaos and uncertainty. One thing is certain though: globalization is dead here. All folks are for themselves......
ghazi52
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Mr Dar also disclosed that several Arab and non-Arab countries had expressed interest in concluding security agreements with Pakistan, along the lines of the recent ‘strategic mutual defence’ pact with Saudi Arabia. He cautioned, however, that decisions on such requests would “take some time”.
He said several foreign ministers had raised the proposal with him on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. He likened multiple countries signing bilateral pacts with Pakistan to the formation of an “eastern Nato”, without explaining how separate arrangements could evolve into a multilateral bloc.
“It is my faith that Pakistan will one day lead the Islamic ummah,” he said. “Allah Almighty has made you a nuclear and missile power and now you are to become an economic power,” adding that this would require unity.
He said several foreign ministers had raised the proposal with him on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly. He likened multiple countries signing bilateral pacts with Pakistan to the formation of an “eastern Nato”, without explaining how separate arrangements could evolve into a multilateral bloc.
“It is my faith that Pakistan will one day lead the Islamic ummah,” he said. “Allah Almighty has made you a nuclear and missile power and now you are to become an economic power,” adding that this would require unity.
Starlord
Trusted Member
His Urdu is good, but I heard better Urdu from Emirati at Dubai Air port...When I first visited Dubai back in 2010, upon arrival at Dubai Airport immigration, was expecting to speak some English because I knew that Dubai system was build designed by American/Europeans so its either English or Arabic, but when my turn come to go for Retina scan, the officer who was a Emirati said to me in perfect Urdu, Mun is machine pe rakho, aur aankho ko sheeshay se level karo, aur aankh mat japkana...
Translation roughly, put your face on the scanning machine, and level your eyes to the lens of scanner, and try not to blink... I was looking at him like so confused, then he told me in a friendly way, Urdu ati hai mujhe... I know Urdu lol
_Arabia_
Trusted Member
That is actually not so strange. This part of East Arabia (what is today UAE) has had long-standing trade ties with South Asia (much of Arabia has had that though) and there have been many people to people ties throughout the centuries/millennia since the time of the IVC. In fact ancient Arabian civilizations in Eastern Arabia such as Sumer, Dilmun, Magan etc. were the first to describe/write down/trade with the IVC next door.
From what I remember, Eastern Arabia (the part that is today UAE and which was known Trucial State) had close ties to the British Raj.
Trucial States - Wikipedia
Also there were/are people to people ties due to migrations into Eastern Arabia and the other way around. In particular Sindhi and Baloch people.
Not really so surprising. This is the same case with Southern Iran and Eastern Arabia, people to people movements, intermarriages etc.
Anyway outside of Makkah and Madinah in KSA and some (probably without being 100% sure) coastal cities in the Eastern Province, knowledge of any South Asian languages was/is rare.
Anyway Arabic has influenced Urdu tremendously.
Influence of Arabic on other languages - Wikipedia
There are a lot of Arabic words in Urdu but some of them are pronounced differently so you do not notice this. But even I, that have never taught myself Urdu for even 1 hour, I can understand quite a bit if people speak slowly and talk clearly. The alphabet is also derived from Arabic (with few additional letters) so fairly easy to read too.
Anyway aside from this engineers/soldiers Urdu accent, I am in fact more interested hearing about the Pakistani nuclear power plants and if they were built by local hands or foreign firms and most importantly if Pakistan could set up nuclear power plants within KSA.
Personally I would prefer to partner with Pakistan over the other alternatives. So if somebody knowledgeable about this topic could answer, it would be appreciated.
BTW: Found a great list of Urdu words directly of Arabic origin. I am sure many Urdu speakers will be surprised by the amount.
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Starlord
Trusted Member
That is actually not so strange. This part of East Arabia (what is today UAE) has had long-standing trade ties with South Asia (much of Arabia has had that though) and there have been many people to people ties throughout the centuries/millennia since the time of the IVC. In fact ancient Arabian civilizations in Eastern Arabia such as Sumer, Dilmun, Magan etc. were the first to describe/write down/trade with the IVC next door.
From what I remember, Eastern Arabia (the part that is today UAE and which was known Trucial State) had close ties to the British Raj.
Trucial States - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Also there were/are people to people ties due to migrations into Eastern Arabia and the other way around. In particular Sindhi and Baloch people.
Not really so surprising. This is the same case with Southern Iran and Eastern Arabia, people to people movements, intermarriages etc.
Anyway outside of Makkah and Madinah in KSA and some (probably without being 100% sure) coastal cities in the Eastern Province, knowledge of any South Asian languages was/is rare.
Anyway Arabic has influenced Urdu tremendously.
Influence of Arabic on other languages - Wikipedia
There are a lot of Arabic words in Urdu but some of them are pronounced differently so you do not notice this. But even I, that have never taught myself Urdu for even 1 hour, I can understand quite a bit if people speak slowly and talk clearly.
Anyway aside from this engineers/soldiers Urdu accent, I am in fact more interested hearing about the Pakistani nuclear power plants and if they were built by local hands or foreign firms and most importantly if Pakistan could set up nuclear power plants within KSA.
Personally I would prefer to partner with Pakistan over the other alternatives. So if somebody knowledgeable about this topic could answer, it would be appreciated.
BTW: Found a great list of Urdu words directly of Arabic origin. I am sure many Urdu speakers will be surprised by the amount.
Well I can tell you very few have knowledge of Pakistan Nuclear program, tis a very closely guarded secret, but some experience members can give you a understanding, Oscar, Panzerkiel, Rescue Ranger, Fatman17, Blain2, Side-winder, HRK, Farooqbhai...
hydrabadi_arab
SpeedLimited
Nope. Pakistan nuclear power plants are made by China. China build 2 2200MW nuclear power plants in 2017 and another one with capacity of 1200MW is under construction.
_Arabia_
Trusted Member
What I suspected however after 50 + years, Pakistan must have indigenous knowledge to such a degree that they would be able to set up nuclear power plants in KSA next door? Or am I being too optimistic here? This would be a great thing if you ask me. Two Muslim countries working together without any outsiders would be preferable. Not that I don't trust China (both are strategic partners of KSA and Pakistan) but always easier with less partners.
Thank you. I will wait for their replies.
hydrabadi_arab
SpeedLimited
Pakistan have build indigenous nuclear reactor for weapons in Khushab, but thats probably not what Saudi Arabia is looking for.
_Arabia_
Trusted Member
I think that the government is looking for reliable nuclear power plants that will help prevent oil and in particular gas (which KSA does not export yet despite one of the world's largest reserves - will do so in the future) being wasted for local energy consumption. Part of the "clean energy" (renewables) political goals as well. Hence all the dams in the many mountainous regions of KSA, solar plants, windmills etc. Yet much more is needed to be done.
The UAE next door has the largest nuclear power plant in the region (Barakah) that already serves 25% or so (If I recall) of the annual electricity needs of the entire UAE. Built by South Korea.
Barakah nuclear power plant - Wikipedia
KSA has uranium reserves (5% of the world's reserves apparently) and KSA has publicly (our energy minister) stated they want to export enriched uranium.
This way Pakistan (in the future) could buy enriched uranium from KSA. Or receive for free depending on the deals reached.
When Pakistan was sanctioned to death after the nuclear tests, KSA basically gave Pakistan deferred oil for free that later (10 years later), the debt was written off.
There are many mutually beneficial possibilities if such a deal could be reached. If I was a ruler I would be looking towards such deals as part of this accord/agreement. They are very strategic in nature and would cement a long-term stable relationship.
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
for weapons yes but for power generation no , maybe research reactor at the most .its just cheaper to ask China to build it and power generation is all about money not about secrecy and independence
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