Pakistan UAVs News & Discussions

[Tremain]

Why can't we design a drone with 2 engines and contra-rotating propellers if the choice of engines is an issue?

 

[Ak01]

Lycoming engine

you specifically dont want this- pistons like these are rarely used in mil applications as in alot of places avgas availability is little to none.

 

[JamD]

Why can't we design a drone with 2 engines and contra-rotating propellers if the choice of engines is an issue?

Funny you should say that. For a very long time I suffered from the Mandela effect and misremembered S3 having boom-mounted twin engines like the Aksungur.

I understand the desire to have commonality with S2 in terms of design by having a single pusher in the fuselage but seeing the roles S3 is envisioned for perhaps a better design would've been boom-mounted twin engines. Yes, I know this would increase size, weight, and complexity, but in my naive opinion in the absence of super-powerful engines, this was the logical choice.

EDIT: So logic dictates that S3 is being pushed around before an appropriate engine has been installed and more importantly GIDS is confident that this engine will come (I hope), and hence the design choice.

 

[Ak01]

Funny you should say that. For a very long time I suffered from the Mandela effect and misremembered S3 having boom-mounted twin engines like the Aksungur.

are you sure you're misremembering, because i also have the same memory lol... gids road to future, i feel like it was scrubbed.

 

[JamD]

are you sure you're misremembering, because i also have the same memory lol... gids road to future, i feel like it was scrubbed.

Yes, it turned out it was S4 or something but I was thinking it was S3 lol.

 

[Oscar]

you specifically dont want this- pistons like these are rarely used in mil applications as in alot of places avgas availability is little to none.

Lycoming TDs could be used if they can ever get Attock refinery to meet the Mogas standards.

 

[Bilal]

Funny you should say that. For a very long time I suffered from the Mandela effect and misremembered S3 having boom-mounted twin engines like the Aksungur.

Not Mandela effect. You just misremember the group 5 UAV that was shown on GIDS road to future page and has since been removed.

 

[JamD]

Not Mandela effect. You just misremember the group 5 UAV that was shown on GIDS road to future page and has since been removed.
View attachment 157943

Thanks to wayback machine:

 

[hasssanali8998]

Can China’s low-cost Feilong-300D suicide drone deter rivals and impress buyers?

Military journal details surprisingly inexpensive long-range reconnaissance and attack vehicle aimed at price-sensitive buyers.

www.scmp.com

The article also speculated about potential customers for the weapon: “Should the Pakistani military procure significant quantities, the Feilong-300D would be offered at an exceptionally attractive price, potentially as low as US$10,000.”

all roads lead to the shahed , the ak47 of the drones

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Thanks to wayback machine:
View attachment 157944

Both weight classes have their own uses. 170hp S3 is tailor made for COIN operations unlike akinci types which can be overkill and expensive as a workhorse. S3-170, Six hard points, two dual racks, can carry 4 burq50p (200kg) and 4 Burq25g (100kg) with a 100 Kg of external payload still to go. Enough to decimate a tashkeel of 50 or more without losing a single soldier.

The twin engine (basically like askungur) will be perfect for maritime operations and long range ISR. Better range and payload to haul torpedoes and endurance to loiter and find the Subs. Etc.

The single engine needs to be the COIN workhorse and will be cheaper to fly. Outperforms Ch-4b and TB2 types currently on paper atleast. Give it a better engine like PD-222 eventually and we can get 500 kg of external payload. Enough for 2 (Pk82) or 4 (pk81) general purpose bombs if micro munitions don't cut it.

Long story short, the Shahpar program has potential as long a the budget is there which has been the main bottleneck for everything in Pakistan. In a perfect world we would have had an S3 class drone by early 2020s, considering it has been 10 years since first Burraq airstrike was conducted. God, I had high hopes then.

Anyway, anyone got any word on Burq50P? Qualification and induction completed?

 

[Toxic]

Both weight classes have their own uses. 170hp S3 is tailor made for COIN operations unlike akinci types which can be overkill and expensive as a workhorse. S3-170, Six hard points, two dual racks, can carry 4 burq50p (200kg) and 4 Burq25g (100kg) with a 100 Kg of external payload still to go. Enough to decimate a tashkeel of 50 or more without losing a single soldier.

The twin engine (basically like askungur) will be perfect for maritime operations and long range ISR. Better range and payload to haul torpedoes and endurance to loiter and find the Subs. Etc.

The single engine needs to be the COIN workhorse and will be cheaper to fly. Outperforms Ch-4b and TB2 types currently on paper atleast. Give it a better engine like PD-222 eventually and we can get 500 kg of external payload. Enough for 2 (Pk82) or 4 (pk81) general purpose bombs if micro munitions don't cut it.

Long story short, the Shahpar program has potential as long a the budget is there which has been the main bottleneck for everything in Pakistan. In a perfect world we would have had an S3 class drone by early 2020s, considering it has been 10 years since first Burraq airstrike was conducted. God, I had high hopes then.

Anyway, anyone got any word on Burq50P? Qualification and induction completed?

Many of our early drones were essentially Chinese designs that were rebadged, Shaphar 3 is sorta our first completely designed at home project so there will growing pains.

 

[Bilal]

Many of our early drones were essentially Chinese designs that were rebadged, Shaphar 3 is sorta our first completely designed at home project so there will growing pains.

Many? Or just 1.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Funny you should say that. For a very long time I suffered from the Mandela effect and misremembered S3 having boom-mounted twin engines like the Aksungur.

I understand the desire to have commonality with S2 in terms of design by having a single pusher in the fuselage but seeing the roles S3 is envisioned for perhaps a better design would've been boom-mounted twin engines. Yes, I know this would increase size, weight, and complexity, but in my naive opinion in the absence of super-powerful engines, this was the logical choice.

EDIT: So logic dictates that S3 is being pushed around before an appropriate engine has been installed and more importantly GIDS is confident that this engine will come (I hope), and hence the design choice.

Is there really no Chinese engine available that fits the bill?

 

[JamD]

Is there really no Chinese engine available that fits the bill?

I wouldn't know - @arslank01 might know better.

 

[JamD]

Both weight classes have their own uses. 170hp S3 is tailor made for COIN operations unlike akinci types which can be overkill and expensive as a workhorse. S3-170, Six hard points, two dual racks, can carry 4 burq50p (200kg) and 4 Burq25g (100kg) with a 100 Kg of external payload still to go. Enough to decimate a tashkeel of 50 or more without losing a single soldier.

The twin engine (basically like askungur) will be perfect for maritime operations and long range ISR. Better range and payload to haul torpedoes and endurance to loiter and find the Subs. Etc.

The single engine needs to be the COIN workhorse and will be cheaper to fly. Outperforms Ch-4b and TB2 types currently on paper atleast. Give it a better engine like PD-222 eventually and we can get 500 kg of external payload. Enough for 2 (Pk82) or 4 (pk81) general purpose bombs if micro munitions don't cut it.

Long story short, the Shahpar program has potential as long a the budget is there which has been the main bottleneck for everything in Pakistan. In a perfect world we would have had an S3 class drone by early 2020s, considering it has been 10 years since first Burraq airstrike was conducted. God, I had high hopes then.

Anyway, anyone got any word on Burq50P? Qualification and induction completed?

Agreed with everything.

Two points:
1. Design: When you're so underpowered, you are flying dangerously close to not flying and I am sure this will either limit the payload you can carry or make your UAV very unreliable. I suspect a bit of both is going on until a more suitable engine is installed.
2. Production and Sales: The PAF/PA haven't committed wholly to the Shahpar program like the PAF committed to the JF-17 program. There are so many UAVs in service. Ideally a larger proportion of these should've been Shahpar variants, which would funnel more money internally than externally and help the development of the program.