Pakistani genetics and how it maps onto the wider region (A follow-up to the post about the Indic race)

[Neojinnah]

This thread is a response to the unjustified indignation at the idea that Pakistanis cluster with Indian populations, which lead some to claim I am a false-flagging Indian for merely restating what should be a commonly accepted fact.

Genetic research consistently shows that Pakistani populations, especially Punjabis, Sindhis, and Pashtuns, fall along a genetic gradient known as the Northwest Indic cline. This means they share a significant amount of ancestry with northern Indian groups and sit along a continuum that extends from Iran and Central Asia into South Asia. The root of this shared ancestry are the Indo-Aryan migration around 1500 BCE, which established a common ancestral pool across the region. For example, Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan are genetically very similar to Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus in India, who in turn, are very similar to ethnicities in Kashmir, Rajasthan, Haryana, UP, etc.

The reality is that though Pakistanis want to disassociate from the AASI-maxxed Gangetic Hindu, we are just steppe and zagros-shifted NW Indics who fundamentally share the same base ancestral heritage. The implications of this, which Pakistanis constantly try to hide from, is that the conflict between Islamic Pakistan and Hindu Bharat is not a war between Islam and Hinduism, but an Indic civil war where Muslim Indics are locked in a life-or-death struggle against the extremist Hindu Indic racial cult. This truth is difficult to acknowledge because so far, Muslim Indics have been losing this war. Muslim Indic power was completely smashed in their strongholds - Delhi and the Deccan. The Muslims who now reside in those lands have been systematically depoliticized and slowly dispossessed of their lands and property. The remnants of the Muslim Indic elite were pushed to the fringes of South Asia - Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they were able to build states which have so far completely failed to strengthen the position of Muslims Indics in the subcontinent. No matter how Pakistani nationalists try to cope with this loss with constructed narratives, the truth is in our genetics and heritage.

 

[peacemaker99]

This thread is a response to the unjustified indignation at the idea that Pakistanis cluster with Indian populations, which lead some to claim I am a false-flagging Indian for merely restating what should be a commonly accepted fact.

Genetic research consistently shows that Pakistani populations, especially Punjabis, Sindhis, and Pashtuns, fall along a genetic gradient known as the Northwest Indic cline. This means they share a significant amount of ancestry with northern Indian groups and sit along a continuum that extends from Iran and Central Asia into South Asia. The root of this shared ancestry are the Indo-Aryan migration around 1500 BCE, which established a common ancestral pool across the region. For example, Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan are genetically very similar to Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus in India, who in turn, are very similar to ethnicities in Kashmir, Rajasthan, Haryana, UP, etc.

The reality is that though Pakistanis want to disassociate from the AASI-maxxed Gangetic Hindu, we are just steppe-shifted NW Indics who fundamentally share the same base ancestral heritage. The implications of this, which Pakistanis constantly try to hide from, is that the conflict between Islamic Pakistan and Hindu Bharat is not a war between Islam and Hinduism, but an Indic civil war where Muslim Indics are locked in a life-or-death struggle against the extremist Hindu Indic racial cult. This truth is difficult to acknowledge because so far, Muslim Indics have been losing this war. Muslim Indic power was completely smashed in their strongholds - Delhi and the Deccan. The Muslims who now reside in those lands have been systematically depoliticized and slowly dispossessed of their lands and property. The remnants of the Muslim Indic elite were pushed to the fringes of South Asia - Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they were able to build states which have so far completely failed to strengthen the position of Muslims Indics in the subcontinent. No matter how Pakistani nationalists try to cope with this loss with constructed narratives, the truth is in our genetics and heritage.

'Land and property'. Its like listening to an 18th century man in the 21st centuty.

 

[Neojinnah]

'Land and property'. Its like listening to an 18th century man in the 21st centuty.

It sounds like an 18th century thing but that is juat what happens in India. Hindu-converteds and Hindu Indics rape, riot, and pillage as a tactic to punish minorities, take their land, and ethnically cleanse them/push them to ghettos.This model has been applied to Muslims in East Punjab, Jammu, Kashmir, and Hyderabad, among others. There is an entire population of Sikh exiles in the Western world because Hindu Indics collectively attacked the Sikh community as a whole in reponse to Indira's assassination. It is being applied to Kuki Christians in Manipur as we speak. One of the rallying cries of the ruling Hindu radical party is the presence of infiltrators and illegals in the country which is an obvious pretence to justify targeting Bengali Muslims.

 

[r3alist]

where they were able to build states which have so far completely failed to strengthen the position of Muslims Indics in the subcontinent. No matter how Pakistani nationalists try to cope with this loss with constructed narratives, the truth

Rakz, It's not a loss but a tremendous asset because now the nation state container has allowed distinct Muslim polities outside of hindu mainland

Ask yourself who needs who for their civilizational and cultural sense of self? The Indians are reminded of civilizational loss with Pakistan, they need to be closer to have influence else they are at a wits ends of looking at the dalits and themselves.

Pakistan has other Muslim nations to connect with culturally and religiously and therefore spiritually, as well as ideas .

The separation is a spiritual and metaphysical divergence that Indians cannot comprehend, it's diabolical to suggest to India all pray together under one roof, for example, that's Indian spiritual rot and they hate the transcendence of Pakistan,that's the victory that keeps giving

In any care a famous Indian minister quipped that India would create a Pakistan if Pakistan did not exist.

End of thread

 

[Neojinnah]

Rakz, It's not a loss but a tremendous asset because now the nation state container has allowed distinct Muslim polities outside of hindu mainland

Tremendous asset in what way? I can think of a massive loss just from your post alone - the way you describe the landmass of India - 3 million square kilometres, the 7th largest country in the world - as a "Hindu mainland". Caste Hindus - upper caste Hindus to be precise, the only actual Hindus, a tiny minority in South Asia, have been able to impose their identity and ideology on an entire land. Land which was once a centre of Muslim Indic culture, thought, cuisine, and art, which Muslim Indics fought and died for over centuries, all ceded to the most totalitarian ideology in South Asia.

A massive powerful Juche/Nazi style fascist racial death cult is now sitting at the doorstep of the remaining sovereign Muslim Indic states and somehow you don't see this as a failure and loss for not only Muslim Indics, but Indics and South Asians as a whole.

Pakistan has other Muslim nations to connect with culturally and religiously and therefore spiritually, as well as ideas .

How has this worked out practically? The descendants of the Muslim Indic elite are all basically in the process of settling in Western Europe, US, Canada, etc. The Muslim Indic working classes are forced to find work in the Gulf or illegally immigrate and escape as asylum seekers/refugees. No one actually wants to stay in Pakistan, but other Muslim countries are in similar states of war and destruction, so the natural choice becomes fleeing to the Gulf or the West.

The Indic Civil War has been a disaster to Muslim Indics particularly. There is no force able to challenge the genocide of Rohingya Muslims, despite Arakan being in the backyard of two large, supposedly powerful Muslim states in the region

 

[r3alist]

I'm amazed how you don't see this as a failure and loss for not only Muslim Indics, but Indics and South Asians as a whole

Poopjeets are an Indian issue, that's a literal win because when poop is part of your national cultural life you better get away quickly, so you have no argument here

If you intermingle with that it seeps into the brain

How has this worked out practically? The descendants of the Muslim Indic elite are all basically in the process of settling in Western Europe, US, Canada, etc. The Muslim Indic working classes are forced to find work in the Gulf or illegally immigrate and escape as asylum seekers/refugees. No one actually wants to stay in Pakistan.

Muslim resilience is time tested, there is a connecting tissue of spiritual bonds that people seek to corrupt yet they still sustain


Pakistan represents the balance to Hindu civilization in the Eurasian mainland and does so being much smaller, thus by being different, spiritually, because the spiritual life defines a nation

And India without Muslim gulf money collapses, tell me who needs to stay close to Muslims

 

[Neojinnah]

Poopjeets are an Indian issue, that's a literal win because when poop is part of your national cultural life you better get away quickly, so you have no argument here

It's a pan-South Asian issue. In your lifetime, you have already seen the following:
- Russia invade Ukraine and destroy both its own and their population trying to reintegrate it into Russia
- Israel slaughter hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to annex Gaza, and then apply the same model in South Lebanon
- Azerbaijan cleanse Karabagh of Armenians and retake it

Multiple revanchist wars of genocide in this age of growing nationalism, and you are unconcerned that on the East of the Pakistani border, a cabal of fanatical Hindus is controlling a massive nuclear power and systematically brainwashing 1 billion people to hate Muslim Indics

Pakistan represents the balance to Hindu civilization

There is no such thing as balance in a survival of the fittest battle. So far Pakistan has just helplessly been cornered and routed multiple times while India has slowly grown much bigger and more capable. Now it has to deal witb internal insurgencies, a dying economy, resource-stressed population, climate change, water shortages, and the Afghan Taliban (bankrolled with Indian money) before it can even think to balance India.

 

[mythbuster]

This thread is a response to the unjustified indignation at the idea that Pakistanis cluster with Indian populations, which lead some to claim I am a false-flagging Indian for merely restating what should be a commonly accepted fact.

Genetic research consistently shows that Pakistani populations, especially Punjabis, Sindhis, and Pashtuns, fall along a genetic gradient known as the Northwest Indic cline. This means they share a significant amount of ancestry with northern Indian groups and sit along a continuum that extends from Iran and Central Asia into South Asia. The root of this shared ancestry are the Indo-Aryan migration around 1500 BCE, which established a common ancestral pool across the region. For example, Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan are genetically very similar to Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus in India, who in turn, are very similar to ethnicities in Kashmir, Rajasthan, Haryana, UP, etc.

The reality is that though Pakistanis want to disassociate from the AASI-maxxed Gangetic Hindu, we are just steppe and zagros-shifted NW Indics who fundamentally share the same base ancestral heritage. The implications of this, which Pakistanis constantly try to hide from, is that the conflict between Islamic Pakistan and Hindu Bharat is not a war between Islam and Hinduism, but an Indic civil war where Muslim Indics are locked in a life-or-death struggle against the extremist Hindu Indic racial cult. This truth is difficult to acknowledge because so far, Muslim Indics have been losing this war. Muslim Indic power was completely smashed in their strongholds - Delhi and the Deccan. The Muslims who now reside in those lands have been systematically depoliticized and slowly dispossessed of their lands and property. The remnants of the Muslim Indic elite were pushed to the fringes of South Asia - Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they were able to build states which have so far completely failed to strengthen the position of Muslims Indics in the subcontinent. No matter how Pakistani nationalists try to cope with this loss with constructed narratives, the truth is in our genetics and heritage.

Wtf is your actual agenda in the guise of intellectual discourse?

 

[Neojinnah]

Pakistan has other Muslim nations to connect with culturally and religiously and therefore spiritually, as well as ideas .

This notion has turned out to be completely wrong btw. Muslim Indics miscalculated thinking extremist Hindu Indics hate Islam more than anything else when it turned out they just hate non-Hindu Indics. We were the largest nom-Hindu Indic population and so represented the most immediate threat.

In the end, India has enjoyed good relations with the Muslim world for the most part, and Pakistan is left to wage its existential war to preserve the Muslim community's sovereignity in the region by itself. I don't the blame the rest of the Muslim world btw, but this is what I mean when I say this is an Indic Civil War. The struggle for Kashmir, for example, will never be settled by the Gulf, Turkey, Iran, etc. They are too far, have their own problems, and their own enemies. It can only be settled by the locals of the region - Indics in this case

 

[Neojinnah]

Wtf is your actual agenda in the guise of intellectual discourse?

I like how I try to bring a different viewpoint grounded in facts and history and it's just treated with complete suspicion as if ordinary discourse is just not allowed

 

[r3alist]

It's a pan-South Asian issue. In your lifetime, you have already seen the following:
- Russia invade Ukraine and destroy both its own and their population trying to reintegrate it into Russia
- Israel slaughter hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to annex Gaza, and then apply the same model in South Lebanon
- Azerbaijan cleanse Karabagh of Armenians and retake it

Multiple revanchist wars of genocide in this age of growing nationalism, and you are unconcerned that on the East of the Pakistani border, a cabal of fanatical Hindus is controlling a massive nuclear power and systematically brainwashing 1 billion people to hate Muslim Indics



There is no such thing as balance in a survival of the fittest battle. So far Pakistan has just helplessly been cornered and routed multiple times while India has slowly grown much bigger and more capable. Now it has to deal witb internal insurgencies, a dying economy, resource-stressed population, climate change, water shortages, and the Afghan Taliban (bankrolled with Indian money) before it can even think to balance India.

How many decades have you said that for?

The thing with your type is you have mental fragility

Iron sharpens iron and the one time Pakistan was under existential threat during Afghan American occupation it survived


Now it's smarter and tethered to turkey and china, Pakistan has an easier route to technological edge going forward

India was always bigger and Pakistan remained unfazed before, now more than ever it can be confident and assured of this edge because iron sharpens iron. The spiritual gift to know you can be undeterred by a bigger foe whilst the said country has lost its region and begging for visas and laughably begging for technology is delicious ironey

Who wants to be part of indic failures, they are defaulting as a civilization, they don't know how to be Hindu so look to externalise their civilizational failures,no confidence no technology no Tejas no jet engine,no ai....no brains with average Iq 80, and GDP per capita of 3k, best away from that poop show and forge your own path

 

[r3alist]

Wtf is your actual agenda in the guise of intellectual discourse?

Just a better troll, rakz upgraded

 

[mythbuster]

I like how I try to bring a different viewpoint grounded in facts and history and it's just treated with complete suspicion as if ordinary discourse is just not allowed

It's not an ordinary discourse , it's more like a 5 year old showing off his peepee to draw attention.

 

[r3alist]

If iron sharpens iron, how come after decades of fighting internal insurgencies, Pakistan is still floundering trying to defeat insurgencies in Balochistan and the Northwest?

Internal issue with outside interference

Ok? Technology was never Pakistan's issue. If this conflict was just about getting the latest hardware to beat your enemies, Pakistan should have won after decades of receiving weapons and hardware from the US.

Pakistan is the smaller nation, that you even entertain the notion of Pakistan succeeding shows the power Pakistan has over your indics, because they know there is a spiritual and metaphysical difference that diverges Pakistan from India, and that's painful for indics because you feel unwanted and rejected


You guy's are stuck in emotional adolescence hence you start poopjeets solidarity threads, your ways are well known, your region is repelled by you and the inability to be liked is causing you angst

Pakistan and India are both laughably backwards countries, but Pakistan is easily the more backwards and impoverished one

Let's not go down there

@Musings finally got a mask off confession from neo Jinnah

 

[Master Chief]

This thread is a response to the unjustified indignation at the idea that Pakistanis cluster with Indian populations, which lead some to claim I am a false-flagging Indian for merely restating what should be a commonly accepted fact.

Genetic research consistently shows that Pakistani populations, especially Punjabis, Sindhis, and Pashtuns, fall along a genetic gradient known as the Northwest Indic cline. This means they share a significant amount of ancestry with northern Indian groups and sit along a continuum that extends from Iran and Central Asia into South Asia. The root of this shared ancestry are the Indo-Aryan migration around 1500 BCE, which established a common ancestral pool across the region. For example, Punjabi Muslims in Pakistan are genetically very similar to Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus in India, who in turn, are very similar to ethnicities in Kashmir, Rajasthan, Haryana, UP, etc.

The reality is that though Pakistanis want to disassociate from the AASI-maxxed Gangetic Hindu, we are just steppe and zagros-shifted NW Indics who fundamentally share the same base ancestral heritage. The implications of this, which Pakistanis constantly try to hide from, is that the conflict between Islamic Pakistan and Hindu Bharat is not a war between Islam and Hinduism, but an Indic civil war where Muslim Indics are locked in a life-or-death struggle against the extremist Hindu Indic racial cult. This truth is difficult to acknowledge because so far, Muslim Indics have been losing this war. Muslim Indic power was completely smashed in their strongholds - Delhi and the Deccan. The Muslims who now reside in those lands have been systematically depoliticized and slowly dispossessed of their lands and property. The remnants of the Muslim Indic elite were pushed to the fringes of South Asia - Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they were able to build states which have so far completely failed to strengthen the position of Muslims Indics in the subcontinent. No matter how Pakistani nationalists try to cope with this loss with constructed narratives, the truth is in our genetics and heritage.

This entire thread is misleading, which is why your motives are often questioned by many members, including me.

There WERE FUNDAMENTALLY different populations of migrants to South Asia (3 main lineages) that arrived at DIFFERENT TIMES in South Asia, and that contributed different genomes, to varying degrees, to the constitutions of MODERN Indians and Pakistanis.

You can argue about modern genomics all you like and in that context, yes, you would have a point, that there is TODAY significant genomic overlap between most Pakistanis and most North Indians. South Indians are unlike Pakistanis (and North Indians), in this context. Some groups in Pakistan are also very unique TODAY but they remain numerically in the minority.

But you have ignored the history of the region and chosen to illustrate a single temporal snapshot to support your own agenda.

The history, together with genomics, together with religious, linguistic, and cultural differences throughout most of recorded history allow us Pakistanis to distinguish ourselves CLEARLY from ANY Indian. Yes, we are close to SOME, genomically, but to deploy this alone as some justification for declaring us "all Indics but with two different religions" is misleading, at best.