PL-15E and HQ-16FE improvements needed?

[Toxic]

Man, the PL-15 doesn't have a second thruster, it only has one solid-fuel rocket thruster.
The difference is that a general solid-fuel rocket thruster can only work once, without interruption in the middle, and can't be ignited again.
The PL-15 is a dual-pulse solid-fuel rocket thruster. Its fuel rod is divided into two parts. After the first section of fuel is finished, the engine will stop working for a period of time, and then re-ignite the second section of fuel. This is the basic working principle of the dual-pulse engine.
Its engine is not confidential, and the technology is completely public. Its core secret is how to ignite the two sections of fuel rods twice without affecting each other.


The J-10 has a nickname in China called "棍子机(stick fighter)". ------ We put wings on an engine and let the pilot ride on the engine, and that's the J-10.

So, your suggestion about PFX is actually another J-10 fighter. So, what is the point of Pakistan studying this?

In the Chinese fighter series:

• Single medium thrust engine fighter = JF-17
• Single high thrust engine fighter = J-10
• Two medium thrust engines fighter = J-35
• Two high thrust engines fighter = J-20

Medium-thrust turbofan engines: WS-21 (WS-13 series), WS-19. Russia Series: RD-33 series
High-thrust turbofan engines: WS-10, WS-15. Russia Series: AL-31 series

If the JF-17 continues to be developed under the name of "JF-17 series" in the future, such as JF-17 PFX, JF-17 Alpha... then its engine will either continue to use the RD-93MA engine or be replaced with the WS-21/WS-19 engine.
If it switches to a high-thrust engine, then it will be completely redesigned. It can no longer continue to be called the "JF-17 series".

PFX to The Normal JF-17s could be what the Super hornet was to legacy Hornets essentially a somewhat enlargened version of the fighter, because unless the PAF wants to upgrade the engines theres is little reason to develop a another a another block of the JF-17, the non PFX blocks would likely get the WS-10 as a replacement.

 

[mythbuster]

I think the Chinese government will even agree to Pakistan buying the entire J10C production line outright. CAC has already transferred the J10C production line to GAI, which mainly produces agricultural machinery, because of the loss of the PLAAF order. Only is Pakistan really capable of upgrading the J10C on its own?

And although it is advertised that J10C is MRCA, we all actually know that it is Air superiority fighter. the difference in commercial value between this aircraft and MRCA is like the difference between EF-2000 and Rafale, and I am afraid that Pakistan will have a hard time to find any other customer than PAF. I really don't think acquiring the J10C production line is a good idea.

Pakistan will ask for production line of J35 if china refuses Pakistan will go for kaan .... there are no iffs and but about it .

 

[Michael]

Pakistan will ask for production line of J35 if china refuses Pakistan will go for kaan ....

Are you threatening China?
Man, this is not the way to negotiate with China. This approach will only backfire.

PFX to The Normal JF-17s could be what the Super hornet was to legacy Hornets essentially a somewhat enlargened version of the fighter, because unless the PAF wants to upgrade the engines theres is little reason to develop a another a another block of the JF-17, the non PFX blocks would likely get the WS-10 as a replacement.

In my opinion, PAF & PAC really do not need to continue to develop JF-17PFX. It really has no practical significance. No matter which direction Pakistan takes the JF-17, there are better, mature options ahead.

A more realistic solution. Stop the development of JF-17 project and switch to the introduction of J-10CE production line.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Are you threatening China?
Man, this is not the way to negotiate with China. This approach will only backfire.

Threatening? Do you understand the meaning of that word? What the member suggested is called a counteroffer.

 

[Michael]

Threatening? Do you understand the meaning of that word? What the member suggested is called a counteroffer.

Well. It may be a problem of wording in the translation software.

The answer to this question is simple.
Pakistan itself cannot afford the J-35 production line, whether China agrees or not.

Therefore, we can be sure that Pakistan will not get the J-35 production line. As for Pakistan's choice of J-35 or KAAN, this is Pakistan's power and we have no right to interfere.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Pakistan itself cannot afford the J-35 production line, whether China agrees or not.

Yes, that is quite possible.

 

[mythbuster]

Well. It may be a problem of wording in the translation software.

The answer to this question is simple.
Pakistan itself cannot afford the J-35 production line, whether China agrees or not.

Therefore, we can be sure that Pakistan will not get the J-35 production line. As for Pakistan's choice of J-35 or KAAN, this is Pakistan's power and we have no right to interfere.

It won't take more than 100 million dollars to modernize the the existing facilities to accommodate J 35 production.... Pakistan can afford that .

 

[Tomboy]

It won't take more than 100 million dollars to modernize the the existing facilities to accommodate J 35 production.... Pakistan can afford that .

Why would China do technology transfers of sensitive technology? At best it'll be Pakistan making the general airframe and everything else comes from China and even then it'll still be quite a challenge for Pakistan to manufacture the airframe, J-35 is a proper 5th generation aircraft not a JF-17. Far higher composite percentage and newer materials requires more than just new toolings and production line.

 

[mythbuster]

Why would China do technology transfers of sensitive technology? At best it'll be Pakistan making the general airframe and everything else comes from China and even then it'll still be quite a challenge for Pakistan to manufacture the airframe, J-35 is a proper 5th generation aircraft not a JF-17. Far higher composite percentage and newer materials requires more than just new toolings and production line.

Pakistan is not looking for 100 percent in-house manufacturing,...most of the technically advanced parts will be imported..... it's just a fifth generation aircraft not a spaceship.

 

[Tomboy]

Pakistan is not looking for 100 percent in-house manufacturing,...most of the technically advanced parts will be imported..... it's just a fifth generation aircraft not a spaceship.

I doubt Pakistan will buy enough of J-35s to require that anyways, at best China ships over some kits to be assembled in house but otherwise I don't think Pakistan will ever run a J-35 production line with domestic parts, its just not economical.

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Man, the PL-15 doesn't have a second thruster, it only has one solid-fuel rocket thruster.
The difference is that a general solid-fuel rocket thruster can only work once, without interruption in the middle, and can't be ignited again.
The PL-15 is a dual-pulse solid-fuel rocket thruster. Its fuel rod is divided into two parts. After the first section of fuel is finished, the engine will stop working for a period of time, and then re-ignite the second section of fuel. This is the basic working principle of the dual-pulse engine.
Its engine is not confidential, and the technology is completely public. Its core secret is how to ignite the two sections of fuel rods twice without affecting each other.


The J-10 has a nickname in China called "棍子机(stick fighter)". ------ We put wings on an engine and let the pilot ride on the engine, and that's the J-10.

So, your suggestion about PFX is actually another J-10 fighter. So, what is the point of Pakistan studying this?

In the Chinese fighter series:

• Single medium thrust engine fighter = JF-17
• Single high thrust engine fighter = J-10
• Two medium thrust engines fighter = J-35
• Two high thrust engines fighter = J-20

Medium-thrust turbofan engines: WS-21 (WS-13 series), WS-19. Russia Series: RD-33 series
High-thrust turbofan engines: WS-10, WS-15. Russia Series: AL-31 series

If the JF-17 continues to be developed under the name of "JF-17 series" in the future, such as JF-17 PFX, JF-17 Alpha... then its engine will either continue to use the RD-93MA engine or be replaced with the WS-21/WS-19 engine.
If it switches to a high-thrust engine, then it will be completely redesigned. It can no longer continue to be called the "JF-17 series".


Uh. As for BrahMos, the Chinese really didn't care about it. Its range is too short (150KM for low trajectory, 350KM for high trajectory). Even its improved version is only 500KM.
Within this range, the PLA generally uses long-range rocket launchers to carry out large-scale coverage strikes without the need for expensive missiles.

As for the defense system.
It has a lot of problems in itself, the success rate of launch is very low, and the actual hit accuracy is even lower.
Pakistan can introduce high-altitude long-endurance UAV for long-term early warning. The ballistic computer in the background accurately calculates the missile trajectory and analyzes the missiles that need to be intercepted. Most BrahMos can be completely ignored. This real-time early warning can make various preparations in advance.
Pakistan can introduce China's 625E defense system for flexible and mobile deployment. Although this defense weapon has a short interception distance, it has a high interception success rate and extremely low cost. It has a very flexible and mobile deployment capability.
Better defense systems can also be purchased appropriately. However, these defense systems are too expensive, and the cost of intercepting missiles is also high. Using them to intercept BrahMos may result in a serious loss. Pakistan only needs to deploy a small number of them in key areas.

Yes, PLA can ignore. Pakistan's all large urban centres and military bases are located within the 500 KM arc of Brahmos. Pakistan's only option is to strike early and take out as many Brahmos as possible in storage, on launchers and in production.

 

[iblini]

Yes, PLA can ignore. Pakistan's all large urban centres and military bases are located within the 500 KM arc of Brahmos. Pakistan's only option is to strike early and take out as many Brahmos as possible in storage, on launchers and in production.

The geo limitation of Pak is clearly an issuse as seen during this conflict.

 

[Michael]

Yes, PLA can ignore. Pakistan's all large urban centres and military bases are located within the 500 KM arc of Brahmos. Pakistan's only option is to strike early and take out as many Brahmos as possible in storage, on launchers and in production.

I have provided you with the solution.

Offensive defensive measures: long-range rocket launchers.

The long-range rockets produced by China can reach a range greater than that of BrahMos. They can be equipped with various warheads including high-explosive shells, armor-piercing shells, and earth-penetrating shells. The power of these weapons can be large or small, which is very flexible. Their cost of use (rocket) is also much lower than that of BrahMos missiles.

Pakistan has already purchased some Chinese long-range rocket artillery systems. More special rocket ammunition may be needed. There are no technical restrictions or procurement barriers for these.

China itself does not need short-range missiles. Therefore, the PLA itself does not have too many short-range missiles. Some Chinese military enterprises have developed some short-range missiles for export, but because there are no orders from the PLA, the production quantity is not large, resulting in high costs. However, the PLA itself needs a large number of long-range rockets, and military enterprises produce a large number of them, so the cost is very low.

 

[FuturePAF]

bro, there was this rumor of J10D semi stealth thing way back and confirmed by reputable people online, 10 years ago if I recall correctly, but nothing substantial came out eventually, that means PLAAF doesn't like the concept of semi stealth, not worth it.

The PLAAF has the funds, but if the PAF devices to go for the J-10 in a big way, it might be worth it for the PAF. Ideally they should just go for more J-35s.

 

[Bilal]

Yes, PLA can ignore. Pakistan's all large urban centres and military bases are located within the 500 KM arc of Brahmos. Pakistan's only option is to strike early and take out as many Brahmos as possible in storage, on launchers and in production.

Plus investment into HQ11 and LD3000 for important locations. While also bolstering the numbers of HQ9, HQ16 and expediting the local LOMADS.