PL-15E and HQ-16FE improvements needed?

[Bentley777]

No I think more J10CE

we keep upgrading the JF17 program

and then we go for J-35

I dont think J16 has a role in Pakistan

PAF inventory needs a j16 type twin engine fighter even more than j35 in my view. I have seen j16 closely it's a wonderful Machine for EW and also heavy payload delivery we are lacking. only mirages can deliver and jf17 but limited. So if we can get j16E from China it will be best news. I know Russia permission is needed but jf17 engine is also Russian also and for those who are saying twin engine jets are expensive to operate both j35 and Kaan are twin engine. if pfx has to deliver something it can be like a aircraft j16 which is must needed.

 

[ety]

The only problem of exporting PL-17 to Pakistan is there is a treaty on limits to maximum range on the missiles to under 300 km, PL-17 has an operating range of 500 km. China is a signature to the treaty. Maybe China can make the PL-17 E to be under 300 km.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

The only problem of exporting PL-17 to Pakistan is there is a treaty on limits to maximum range on the missiles to under 300 km, PL-17 has an operating range of 500 km. China is a signature to the treaty. Maybe China can make the PL-17 E to be under 300 km.

It was reported on several channels that Russia had offered India the R-37M (their equivalent of PL-17) at the aerospace event in 2025, including local production. Even the BrahMos seems to be a derivative of the P-800 Onyx.

Russia Offers R-37M Missile to Boost India's Air Defense

Russia offers India the R-37M hypersonic missile, a Mach 6 air-to-air weapon with a 400 km range, enhancing the IAF’s combat capabilities.

universalinstitutions.com

 

[ety]

It was reported on several channels that Russia had offered India the R-37M (their equivalent of PL-17) at the aerospace event in 2025, including local production. Even the BrahMos seems to be a derivative of the P-800 Onyx.

Russia Offers R-37M Missile to Boost India's Air Defense

Russia offers India the R-37M hypersonic missile, a Mach 6 air-to-air weapon with a 400 km range, enhancing the IAF’s combat capabilities.

universalinstitutions.com

I think Brahmos are coproduced by Russia and India, so they are not bound by the export range limits.

 

[MH.Yang]

The only problem of exporting PL-17 to Pakistan is there is a treaty on limits to maximum range on the missiles to under 300 km, PL-17 has an operating range of 500 km. China is a signature to the treaty. Maybe China can make the PL-17 E to be under 300 km.

okya. Russia can get around the agreement by co-producing, and we have the means to do so.
For example, Range 300km, margin of error 200km.

or remove some fuel, range 300km, and you can refuel yourself to increase range to 500km.

 

[LeGenD]

J-10C’s AESA radar has LPI capability so if Rafale has no capable counter measure, J-10C can keep guiding the missile until the missiles active seeker turns on, without help from those AWACS planes.

SAAB system allowed J-10C to detect and engage Indian jets near the border without turning on its radar to be caught in a potential exchange via Pakistan's exclusive Link 17. This was our LPI capability.

 

[MH.Yang]

SAAB system allowed J-10C to detect and engage Indian jets near the border without turning on its radar to be caught in a potential exchange via Pakistan's exclusive Link 17. This was our LPI capability.

SAAB use Link16, can controls PL-15s launched by J10C?If J10C uses a non-radar activated launch of PL-15s, could it be that ZDK-03 is controlling the PL-15s?

 

[KingQamaR]

SAAB system allowed J-10C to detect and engage Indian jets near the border without turning on its radar to be caught in a potential exchange via Pakistan's exclusive Link 17. This was our LPI capability.

All the talk about network-centric, Al, strategy, and tactics masks the basic truth that a Chinese JF10C with Chinese AAM defeated a French Rafael in a, BVR duel; a chilling outcome for those contemplating the future of Chinese air power.

 

[KingQamaR]

SAAB system allowed J-10C to detect and engage Indian jets near the border without turning on its radar to be caught in a potential exchange via Pakistan's exclusive Link 17. This was our LPI capability.

&Legend, that's why China has web field, similar to what US called network centric warfare. That's what Pakistan got too, all be it heavily downgraded version I read. So the main idea is multiple AWACS with good radars with multiple bandwidths and EW aircrafts, along with AESA radars all connected with high bandwidth Datalinks! With this system it's not linear point to point defence or attach its integrated offence, so it's very effective. Furthermore, missiles like PL 15 has its own AESA radar seeking module (all be it Pakistan got a downgraded version)? so it doesn't need guidance, so it's a fire and forgot system. So even if an AWACS gets the approximate lock or position, missiles can be launched and it will automatically lock to the target.
Furthermore it has dual stage so terminal velocity won't drop for effective defence!

 

[enigma chaudhry]

And you don’t believe lateral thrusters could improve the ability of the missile to be able to efficiently engage a target alerted to the incoming missile and employing violent cranking or notching?

Lateral thrusters would be largely superfluous. As the missile is traversing through the thin air at and around 90000 ft mark, it is silent and only receiving guidance through data link.
Once it dives down . Around 10km from the target it turns on its aesa LPI radar, and at the same time the 2nd impulse motor kicks in. That is already around 80 to 90% kill probability.
So about thrusters , the law of deminshing return is valid.

 

[FuturePAF]

Lateral thrusters would be largely superfluous. As the missile is traversing through the thin air at and around 90000 ft mark, it is silent and only receiving guidance through data link.
Once it dives down . Around 10km from the target it turns on its aesa LPI radar, and at the same time the 2nd impulse motor kicks in. That is already around 80 to 90% kill probability.
So about thrusters , the law of deminshing return is valid.

Sounds logical. I guess if the dive down happens at the right time, it might be enough to account for bandits (traveling under Mach 2) displacing from the expected point of intercept. So as long as the kill chain is intact; awacs and ew/isr platforms providing continuous updates should allow the missile to get the kills.

 

[SecularNationalist]

All nuclear capable. Can be used but can trigger a nuclear reaction under misconception of being a nuclear strike from Pakistan. So, need something which is declared non-nuclear like Indian Brahmos. Furthermore, Babur and Raad are very slow missiles for current standard. We need something in high-supersonic (Mach 2.5.-3) or Hypersonic (> Mach 5) cruise missile. Indian Brahmos is Mach 2.8-3.

Dude their scalp and our raad has a same speed. But it looks like the cowards were avoiding escalation so didn't use it.

 

[FuturePAF]

All nuclear capable. Can be used but can trigger a nuclear reaction under misconception of being a nuclear strike from Pakistan. So, need something which is declared non-nuclear like Indian Brahmos. Furthermore, Babur and Raad are very slow missiles for current standard. We need something in high-supersonic (Mach 2.5.-3) or Hypersonic (> Mach 5) cruise missile. Indian Brahmos is Mach 2.8-3.

There is the HD-1A missile as an option. I assume a hypersonic version could probably be developed as well.

Pakistan might want to consider a dual pulse motor version of this missile to make it more survivable against enemy air defenses, as it could execute more evasive maneuvers in the terminal phase.

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