POST WAR assessment of recent conflict.

Credible data from neutral sources is mostly focused on Pakistan with piecemeal analysis of Indian targets. Until all of it comes out - no way to tell.
There are so many sources out there with definitive tilt towards Paksiatn. X is full of so many of them, posting hazy videos taken from ground.
Why can’t one of them do the needful and post content like Damien Simon? He does post content to deny Indian claims too.
 
There are so many sources out there with definitive tilt towards Paksiatn. X is full of so many of them, posting hazy videos taken from ground.
Why can’t one of them do the needful and post content like Damien Simon? He does post content to deny Indian claims too.
I just animated a picture of my grandparents using a free tool into a video and it was close enough to get some guesses.
Now if can do that then many other folks can take anything and create a video then you are at a point where truth is no longer guaranteed.

The only possible objectivity is perhaps from verified neutral observers from the Ukraine and Gaza conflicts but even then an observer neutral there may not be neutral in this context.
 
In my limited opinion Pakistan does not possess the ability to absorb a potential retaliation in the case an attempt to hit the weak spot fails.

Most of the forward centers of gravity in India’s defense lie well within a very potent ADGE which despite claims of it being scarred did not seem to have an impact on the overall net.

So unless you can guarantee hits on those centers of gravity you cannot take this approach. What is left then is trying a mix of erich hartmenns “send one down in flames which scatters the formation” and then rely on the blowfish 🐡 approach by making your capabilities look bigger and more than they are.

Unfortunately - in that not only do you give away your key capabilities for little in return(declaring ability to gather COMINT) you’re not just trying to find the better man next door but actually hoping your messaging resonates with the true players(US, GCC & Europe) whose favor you must curry to survive.

At the end, without a strong economy it is the nuclear threat that keeps escalation at bay as it did this time.
Well, there are ways just whether or not the will come with is the issue. You will need to have access to first class battlefield intel and a competent command structure to switch on the exploit. Or rather, all you actually need is that you need the other side to think you have the capability to do such strike. As they say, if you can't, fake it.........

But nothing in this world is guaranteed, that's probably is the only guarantee I can give you.............
 
The question is how do you define win here?
If India imposes protracted war against Pakistan and Pakistan successfully defends its territory ( at whatever cost ) from Indian Aggression, This may be a win for Pakistanis but may not be for outside analysts.
Do you mean the military science term. The "winning" in military science term is absolute. Which mean it's zero and no do over.

The issue, as my response to @Waz had raised is that, while if we can look at battlefield as a constrain in mathematics and science, then the outcome is always going to be a logical outcome or theoretical outcome, because in the simplest term, if I can drag you on in a 50 years war and you will deplete all your resource before me simply because you are smaller than me, now that could be a logical response, but is not practical, for one, it's always in doubt if I can drag you on for a war for the next 50 years, so if I can't, even if I control most of your land, then you win, and I lose. That's the reality of warfare.

But this is a LOT more complicated than that, not going to go further. And I am having PTSD flashback on my war studies class.......
 
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Indian pilot being taken away in ambulance from Rafale crash site

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Although India is a bigger country than Pakistan, it is no more capable of sustained warfare than Pakistan. As far as I know India's ammunition stockpile, energy stockpile, industrial production capacity, and social organization capacity are all weak.

It is China that really has a strong capacity for a protracted war. China will give full support to Pakistan and eventually it will be India who will not be able to tolerate a protracted war.

You shouldn't say "both with and without Chinese help". Anyone who is familiar with the history of China and Pakistan knows that it is necessarily "with" not "withou".
That's what you don't understand what that Army War College article was talking about.

Logistic is not how much you can handle in general, but theater wise, how do you push stuff into the frontline so your people fighting won't run out of what we called 1, 3, 5. (Food Fuel and Ammunition)

You can have 2000 road leading into a country, but the country itself (or as the AWC reference to it, the float) IS the place your final logistic operation. Now, you can over supply your troop, but say for a city under siege, there are only 2 road in a 2 road out (that's hypothetical), then regardless of your supply issue, you can only send 2 trucks in at the same time. China could have sent 6 million truck full of supply to Pakistan, but to supply that particular village, you can only send 2.

Now, that's 2 dimensions, we now go into 3 dimension, you have 2 cities (City A and City B) in the front line, and you have a log base, the 2 cities both with 2 road in and 2 road out, and the two road are connected to each other, which mean if I float 2 trucks from my Log Base to city A. that same truck can travel to City B via those road, or I can simply send two truck to City B directly. Now you have a buffer, If City A is under siege, you have an alternative. so if either one of those cities is under siege, you can still direct supply from the other city instead of sending nothing.

Now going back to the original question, if I have a bigger country, I can have more logistical solution to the same problem than if you are a smaller country, because of the difference if I connect 100 cities with each other than if I just connect 50. That is what we called "Bottleneck Effect" that is why when we invaded France in Normandy, we need to keep the supply rolling and that was an issue (Read Red Ball Express) because you are geographically limited in your logistical operation by the Area of Operation, ther are 5 beaches, not connect together, which mean whatever we brought in, it will have to be 1 at a time, until we connect those beaches together and then expanded it, this is not going to be solve until then, it's not because we did not make enough bullet or guns or food or whatever putting into the battle, you can make 200 million trucks and have people staff it, you were right, China can produce probably 1000 times Indian production and send enough to Pakistan, but you are as good as how many roads and how many depot you have, otherwise it's just overflowing, supplies that sitting at the rear at depot is pointless.. And that is also why Russia being more productive can still drag on to the war in Ukraine at the opening salvo back in 2022, because they fail to solve the bottleneck.
 
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Pakistan should develop asymmetric strike means. It should focus on developing four types of forces: nuclear weapons, air force, submarines and missiles.

PAF should come out of the comfort zone of Air superiority fighter like J10C. Yes, J10C is bound to bring good exchange ratio. Utilizing better radar missiles and high speed advantage, leave immediately after launching missiles out of line of sight and of course the enemy can't shoot you down. But J10C can't penetrate deep into enemy airspace to strike vital enemy targets for offensive missions, then it will only bring tactical victories, not strategic ones.PAF needs heavy ground striking platforms, it needs to take on more strategic offensive missions for Pakistan. Strategic balance can only be achieved by being able to strike important ground assets. Just shooting down a few fighter jets does not really deter a major power like India.

Pakistan also needs a submarine force as professional and good as PAF. It can even give up medium and large surface ships for this purpose. Defend the coast with land based naval fighters and missile boats and threaten the security of India's shipping lanes with an elite submarine force.

Pakistan also needs to build up a huge inventory of missiles and drones. High-end missiles and drones, as well as low-end cheap missiles and drones, need to be stockpiled in large quantities. The stockpile should be of such a quantity that it can last through the entire war until Chinese assistance arrives.
You are assuming 2 things.

1.) Pakistan can be in that economical position to acquire brand new toy by the time the next time India provoke

2.) You are assuming all those can integrated in time to fend off the next and next conflict. Sure, building long range missile and drone is good, but how do you use them? Most of the target between India and Pakistan are between 150-200KM, you get target further away and those aren't going to dictate battlefield tempo, which means they are secondary, another issue with that is how do you manage the STAR aspect of the weapon system, each weapon you need to assign a target over it, you can't just fly drone and loiter above enemy airspace to look for target, it will get shot down, it will run out of fuel, you can't expect your enemy to walk into your ambush, which mean all those things are going to be offensive intelligence capability, this is going to take a LONG time to develop

The stuff you are talking about, if they are doable, is going to be multiple decade issue. On the other hand, the strategic implication remain unchanged, because you are also assuming while Pakistan grow in their capability, India will just sit and wait.

Of course the simple solution is to just keep pumping money to the problem and make this buy that, but that's hardly a solution at all........
 
No. CT college incidence happened between May 8 and May 9.

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Besides.... CT college is minimum 14-15 KM away from the airbase...

View attachment 124135

Nope those two vids are unrelated.
Clear visual difference between the two
 
The thread started with the explicit message that no Indian to participate in the thread however as usual we have Indians all over the place repeating the same thing over and over. The same old snide remarks against Pakistan and Pakistani people.

No self respecting person would participate in the discussion where he/she is not invited but i am not sure what complex compels them to come here again and again.

To Pakistani posters, stop engaging them here when the topic at hand is different.
 
Guys
If there were six ejections or deaths I have not seen a single video of any pilots of Iaf . My personal feeling is 6 is exaggerated. The actual number may be 2..rafale and su30 .
 
The thread started with the explicit message that no Indian to participate in the thread however as usual we have Indians all over the place repeating the same thing over and over. The same old snide remarks against Pakistan and Pakistani people.

No self respecting person would participate in the discussion where he/she is not invited but i am not sure what complex compels them to come here again and again.

To Pakistani posters, stop engaging them here when the topic at hand is different.

Rafale was defeated in one night...with clear image and video evidence. Indian people are barking that it’s fake. And what incentive France have who manufactures the Rafale have admitted it was shot down. And also they stopped using fighter jets after that, just drone and missiles were used. What more evidence do you need. And me personally. I no longer replying to Indian bots waste of space and time for all.
 
Indian pilot being taken away in ambulance from Rafale crash site

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It was a local who rushed into the field where the rafale crashed and died to a mica cookoff, it was not a pilot stop spreading misinformation.
 
The thread started with the explicit message that no Indian to participate in the thread however as usual we have Indians all over the place repeating the same thing over and over. The same old snide remarks against Pakistan and Pakistani people.

No self respecting person would participate in the discussion where he/she is not invited but i am not sure what complex compels them to come here again and again.

To Pakistani posters, stop engaging them here when the topic at hand is different.



Let’s not forget brother, India acquired Rafale much more earlier than Pakistan acquired J10C. Since Pakistan only has barely 2-3 years of training, and yet we won the battle. These Indian posters commenting have No shame.
 
Nope those two vids are unrelated.
Clear visual difference between the two
It has already been fact checked by others too. Its a false claim.
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