PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

[flyingorca]

1) Gotta be the worst point you've raised so far. We are not a Muslim empire. We are the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, with the white stripe in our flag representing our minoritiies.

2) Our law is so similar to the UK to the point that you can do LLM from London and come back and practice law in Pakistan with one extra book.

3) Anyways, in this republic, and it's constution and all that jazz, we have a land force, often known as 'Pak Fauj'. Let me share with you the oath one takes during a ceremony for officers:

"I, ___________, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to Pakistan and uphold the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan which embodies the will of the people, that I will not engage myself in any political activities whatsoever and that I will honestly and faithfully serve Pakistan in the Pakistan Army as required by and under the law.
May Allah Almighty help and guide me (A'meen).


4) Okay now let me share with you a real interesting one. Said by the guy who gave us this country in the first place to some PMA officers who kept bothering him.

"Do not forget that the armed forces are the servants of the people. You do not make national policy; it is we, the civilians, who decide these issues and it is your duty to carry out these tasks with which you are entrusted."


If you however feel so passionate about having a military ruled country. Feel free to form the Flying Orca People's Party and once you win majority seats in parliament, you can change the laws how you like it. Good?

Lets dismental your weak arguments as usual. FYI my point in this thread was not to have long discussions with emotionally charged PTI cultist who have yet to provide me a straight forward answer to my questions. This might be the last response to all your off topic responses.

1) weak argument.
pakistan constitution was amended in 1950s which made it Islamic republic. In Muslim empires minorities were also given rights and some even held high positions.
Im not suggesting that Pakistan should go back to 1200s but just giving these rayasat e madina churan cultist hypocrites that Military always played a role in politics. If you are going to use Islam in your dirty politics then dont ignore more important stuff like significance of Military in politics.


2) is this something to be proud of? On one hand Imrand Khan is selling "hum goro kay gulam nahi hai" churan and on the other hand lets preserve British raj era constitution and laws in Pakistan saaar.

3) its about time we discard irrelevant pieces of constitution and make what is best for the nation.
But saar 71 71 71 71.

4) you think only Imran Cultist have big mouth and can question things? I have alot to say about Jinnah but dont want to get banned.
First of all, one man can not give you a nation. It was British empire who made every single republic nation that were once under its empire. British willingly withdrew from its empire but giving independence to every nation.
Imagine Jinnah in 1800s when British empire was at its peak.

 

[pashtunkoum]

So we’ll take it you agree with those parts because you have no answer and have only one crutch left to try and get some face saving.. that the same two cult members can like.

Yes. I am absolutely of that belief, because I look at actual geopolitics instead of just quoting Donald Trump rally speeches.
Vassal states do not cut global oil production right before American elections while the US President is actively begging them not to. Vassal states do not join BRICS. Vassal states do not invite the Chinese President for massive state visits and sign strategic tech deals with Beijing. Vassal states do not restore diplomatic ties with Iran using China as the broker while completely bypassing Washington.

Saudi Arabia uses the US for security while playing the rest of the world for its own economic interests. That is called having agency. You thinking they are a complete slave just because Trump made a crude joke about kissing his ass shows how shallow your understanding of foreign policy really is.
But let us play your game. Let us pretend Saudi Arabia is a 100 percent American vassal with zero authority.

If MBS is just an American slave, what does that make Imran Khan?

Because Imran Khan literally acted as the personal chauffeur for MBS when he visited Islamabad. Imran Khan took their bailout money. Imran Khan bent over backwards to keep this “vassal” happy and even skipped the Kuala Lumpur summit just because Saudi Arabia told him to.

So if Saudi Arabia is just a slave to America, your leader was happily playing servant to the slave.

This is exactly what I mean by your cult logic. You try to paint other countries as vassals to make PTI look like brave freedom fighters, but you completely ignore that PTI spent its entire time in power desperately begging those same “vassals” for cash and approval.

You can keep trying to make this a debate about Saudi Arabia to test me, but you are just running away from the fact that your own definitions destroy your own leader’s legacy.

Okay then I think we have reached our conclusion with this argument. If Pakistan is ever blessed with as much oil as Saudi and is still a "yes sir" state then I have nothing else to say.

The bad news for you is many Pakistanis are in my boat and not yours. Pakistan is an innovative nation with hard working engineers, entrepreneurs, doctors, scientists. Pakistan is a nuclear power.

Its why IK is so popular. These people aspire to one day be a great nation not another Saudi Arabia.

 

[Oscar]

Okay then I think we have reached our conclusion with this argument. If Pakistan is ever blessed with as much oil as Saudi and is still a "yes sir" state then I have nothing else to say.

The bad news for you is many Pakistanis are in my boat and not yours. Pakistan is an innovative nation with hard working engineers, entrepreneurs, doctors, scientists. Pakistan is a nuclear power.

Its why IK is so popular. These people aspire to one day be a great nation not another Saudi Arabia.

You are not concluding the argument.
You are escaping it.

Nobody argued Pakistan should “aspire to be Saudi Arabia.” That is a strawman you invented because you could not prove your earlier claims. The actual point was simple: states operate under pressure, make tradeoffs, and still try to preserve room to maneuver.

You kept turning that into a childish fantasy where every non-PTI government is automatically a “yes sir” slave and only IK represents dignity.

That is why your argument keeps collapsing.

You never prove your standard.
You just keep replacing it.

When IK deals with power, it is “balance.”
When others deal with power, it is “slavery.”
When someone points out the contradiction, you switch to slogans about national greatness, engineers, doctors, scientists, and nuclear weapons.

None of that answers the point.

Pakistan having talented people does not prove your foreign policy argument.

Pakistan being a nuclear power does not prove your foreign policy argument.

IK being popular does not prove your foreign policy argument.

PTI-backed independents clearly had major public support in the 2024 election despite the symbol mess, so nobody is denying PTI’s vote base or pretending it was imaginary. But public support is not proof that every PTI talking point is coherent, and it definitely is not proof that your contradictions disappear.

What you are doing now is classic “see no evil, hear no evil.”

You were asked to show where the goalposts did not move.You did not

You were asked to defend your double standard on diplomacy.You did not.

You were asked to explain why pragmatism is wisdom for IK but humiliation for everyone else.

You did not.

Instead, you ran to aspiration. “Pakistanis dream big.”
Fine. So do I. But dreams are not arguments.

And if you actually care about those hardworking Pakistanis you just invoked, then stop feeding them lazy binaries. Stop teaching them that every compromise is slavery unless their favorite leader does it. Stop telling them that thinking critically about tradeoffs is some kind of betrayal.

If you really care about them, then learn to think again.
Not louder.
Not more emotionally.
Differently.
Because right now you are not defending Pakistan’s future. You are defending a mental shortcut where PTI is right by definition and everyone else is wrong by definition.

 

[Cipher212]

Lets dismental your weak arguments as usual. FYI my point in this thread was not to have long discussions with emotionally charged PTI cultist who have yet to provide me a straight forward answer to my questions. This might be the last response to all your off topic responses.

1) weak argument.
pakistan constitution was amended in 1950s which made it Islamic republic. In Muslim empires minorities were also given rights and some even held high positions.
Im not suggesting that Pakistan should go back to 1200s but just giving these rayasat e madina churan cultist hypocrites that Military always played a role in politics. If you are going to use Islam in your dirty politics then dont ignore more important stuff like significance of Military in politics.


2) is this something to be proud of? On one hand Imrand Khan is selling "hum goro kay gulam nahi hai" churan and on the other hand lets preserve British raj era constitution and laws in Pakistan saaar.

3) its about time we discard irrelevant pieces of constitution and make what is best for the nation.
But saar 71 71 71 71.

4) you think only Imran Cultist have big mouth and can question things? I have alot to say about Jinnah but dont want to get banned.
First of all, one man can not give you a nation. It was British empire who made every single republic nation that were once under its empire. British willingly withdrew from its empire but giving independence to every nation.
Imagine Jinnah in 1800s when British empire was at its peak.

Your entire argument is just 'Muh Islamic Empire'.

I already told you buddy. Start the Flying Orca People's Party. Get the votes and go pass law in parliament that Army will rule Pakistan. Until then, your viewpoints and your precious army officers are in violation of the Islamic Republic.

In a functioning country they'd all be court martialed for abusing their powers.

And if you don't like Jinnah go live in India please, we can really do without your ilk. Thanks.

 

[flyingorca]

Your entire argument is just 'Muh Islamic Empire'.

I already told you buddy. Start the Flying Orca People's Party. Get the votes and go pass law in parliament that Army will rule Pakistan. Until then, your viewpoints and your precious army officers are in violation of the Islamic Republic.

In a functioning country they'd all be court martialed for abusing their powers.

And if you don't like Jinnah go live in India please, we can really do without your ilk. Thanks.

My job is to expose hypocrite PTI cult who uses Islam to gain people's sympathy for their vote banks. Your job is to conceal PTI cult dirty tricks.

Voting has no Islamic ties and neither was it practiced under Muslim empires. Voting is a modern concept that was created by western imperialists which has many flaws. if it is not practiced or your rights to vote gets taken away, will not be considered a sin. Im not even religious but again exposing PTI cult who has brainwashed its people into believing what ever they do is according to Islamic values.
So yeah in a functional country with British imperial laws and constitution, you will be punished but not according to Islam.
See, the best way to dismental PTI lies is with the same tool they use to brain wash masses.

I just never believed in founding fathers of any nation. No further explanation as it will deviate from the topic.

 

[SaadH]

As Muslims we all need to believe in existence of black magic.

You mean the corruption cases where Imran Khan apologized for filing fake narcotics cases on his opponents ? and NS was not allowed to meet his dying wife ?

That's a lot of evidence in support of your usual claims.

Meanwhile you conveniently write off the clear corruption case against IK, where he got sealed documents signed by the parliament to misappropriate 190 million GBP, as fake.

In that case all of you turn into expert lawyers to defend IK. In case of everyone else, people have to trust the Dam fund stealing Judges.

The levels of lies and hypocrisy are astounding.

Rana Moocharr narcotic case was created by agancies as are most cases to bully politicians.

Nawaz ganda wasn't allowed to meet his dying wife because of a small matter that he jumped his bail made a runner and was a qanooni mafroor who would have been arrested if he returned.

 

[flyingorca]

Okay then I think we have reached our conclusion with this argument. If Pakistan is ever blessed with as much oil as Saudi and is still a "yes sir" state then I have nothing else to say.

The bad news for you is many Pakistanis are in my boat and not yours. Pakistan is an innovative nation with hard working engineers, entrepreneurs, doctors, scientists. Pakistan is a nuclear power.

Its why IK is so popular. These people aspire to one day be a great nation not another Saudi Arabia.

What a load of BS. This mindset is only going to isolate Pakistan and im so glad PTI is no longer in charge of Pakistan foreign policy. Mind as well throw PTI jab at China for its human rights violations and ask them to return the part of Kashmir that was gifted to them. Go on PTI tigers blame it on Army as well Im pretty sure the Chinese will get really scared and return it to you if you protest and deliver few chest thumping speeches.

 

[Aggregate]

Rana Moocharr narcotic case was created by agancies as are most cases to bully politicians.

Nawaz ganda wasn't allowed to meet his dying wife because of a small matter that he jumped his bail made a runner and was a qanooni mafroor who would have been arrested if he returned.

As I said, you all become expert lawyers when it comes to supporting PTI, but revert back to supporting whatever judges or agencies came up with, when it comes to opposing the other side. The hypocrisy gets more and more hilarious with every conversation.

 

[newb3e]

So since PTI cultist keep repeating the same line that Army has no role in politics do let me know why Muslim empires were predominantly ruled by a hybrid systems (religion + monarchy + military)? The champions of Ummah aka PTI cultist should not use Islam in their dirty brainwashing politics if they are not even gonna follow the original form of Muslim rule. This westernized hybrid democratic system that PTI wants to implement is no where near Muslim political system.

and they declined the Muslim rule after hybrid sytem!! but Allah ki fauj aur fitna tul bs baich baich keh app logon ka demagh chalna bund hogaya!

its not about IK or PTi for once get your head from IKs arse and see the real problem! one recent example umm e rubab fought case for 8 years court had all the witness a clen open and shut case but wardi mafia protected wadera was freed!!

aammm insan cockroach hai uski koi aukat nai khaki mafia chahay ga vote resources izaat abro insaf sab chori kar lay ga aur jung ka manjan baich keh bhagwan ban jai ga!! khaday hain kia hum!

issue is injustice lakin usko dekh keh kh liye IK keh peechwaray say bahir anna hoga! baki rest is bs 2018 may kia howa jo howa galat howa 2024 may kia howa ajj kia ho raha hai galat hai!! so just because 18 may galat tha ajj accept kar lain khadday hain kia!

again its not about IK its about people of Pakistan,shaheeds like zille shah and many more!

 

[Aggregate]

There were many cases on Nawaz before IK came into power, remember in 1999?
who done the military coup? who put mutiny, treason, hijacking and corruption
cases of Nawaja? who put him in prison?



Why not give him a chance to defend himself? bring him to the courts and live stream
everything on TV.

Every Politician, General, Judge need to bought to justice. They need a free and
fair trial. But it's very less likely to happen in banana republic of Faujistan.

So you are using cases filed against NS ... 25 years ago .. to justify the fake narcotics and other fake cases filed by IK 10 years ago ? Wow .. no wonder IK is in jail if his supporters go by this kind of circular self-defeating logic.

And why is IK not bought in person, to courts ? Well, PTI was warned not to gather mobs that attack courts and judges whenever IK would be bought to the courts. Guess what happened ?

In any case, all of these rants, debates, shouting are pointless. PTI celebrated "Same Page" for 4 years and right now their fight is not for justice, rule of law, etc ,etc. Their fight is why they are no longer the favored child of establishment. They cannot handle that and are becoming stupider by the day.

If IK was so true to his words, then you guys would not be sitting under presidentship of Pervaiz Elahi, who IK called Punjab's biggest Decoit, for 16 years. Or why would you team up with PPP to rig up Senate elections .. and then even taunt others for it ? That is the actual reality and standards of PTI. Anything at all for power, whether it was bootlicking of Generals in 2017 or bootlicking of PPP for stelaing senate elections or bootlicking of corrupt politicians like Pervaiz Elahi, for 4 seats in Punjab.

If today PTI comes into power, they would all be celebrating the same page once more .. 100% guaranteed. Even you guys know what this is really about and I have given the proofs above. Now please keep ranting about things you don't really even care about.

 

[pashtunkoum]

What a load of BS. This mindset is only going to isolate Pakistan and im so glad PTI is no longer in charge of Pakistan foreign policy. Mind as well throw PTI jab at China for its human rights violations and ask them to return the part of Kashmir that was gifted to them. Go on PTI tigers blame it on Army as well Im pretty sure the Chinese will get really scared and return it to you if you protest and deliver few chest thumping speeches.

I mean these posts from last few days have revealed everything. In reality it’s your deeply ingrained slavery mindset that’s the problem. The fact you think having a balanced foreign policy is a disaster. The fact you think anything other than subversion and peace prize nomination is poor foreign policy.

Ironically you were set to expose PTI cultists but instead I think I’ve exposed the deeply ingrained slavery mindset of IK haters for all to see.

You just proved all of IK points on being a self respecting nation

 

[Forsvaret]

Ironically you were set to expose PTI cultists but instead I think I’ve exposed the deeply ingrained slavery mindset of IK haters for all to see.

Exactly! Bughz-e-Imranis’ every accusation is a confession.

 

[Aggregate]

I mean these posts from last few days have revealed everything. In reality it’s your deeply ingrained slavery mindset that’s the problem. The fact you think having a balanced foreign policy is a disaster. The fact you think anything other than subversion and peace prize nomination is poor foreign policy.

Ironically you were set to expose PTI cultists but instead I think I’ve exposed the deeply ingrained slavery mindset of IK haters for all to see.

You just proved all of IK points on being a self respecting nation

The only ones being slaves here are PTI crowd being mental slaves of 190 Million pound thief in charge of PTI and Punjab's biggest decoit who is now the president of PTI. You guys started with wanting to get the country rid of corruption but have become slaves to the actually corrupt lot, knowingly defending them day and night coz your ego cannot handle that your partly is rulled by a proven corrupt gang.

As for foreign policy, nobody needs the disaster that was PTI. You have left KPK in ruins and imposed TTP on us with 240% increase in terrorist attacks and a failed 1 month ceasefire after Imran Khan's bootlicking of Taliban once the US left .. he could not hod a ceasefire with them through Decemver 2021 for a month and claims he can handle Pakistan .. let alone showing capability to handle foreign policy where he was kicked out of the plane by Saudis and booted diplomatically by the Chinese.

Funny to see all of this coming from the lot that used to call Army chief the father of nation until 2022. I doubt I ever saw PPP or PMLN celebrate 'Same Page' and taunt others for it while being in power. That kind of slavery award only goes to PTI.

 

[newb3e]

The only ones being slaves here are PTI crowd being mental slaves of 190 Million pound thief in charge of PTI and Punjab's biggest decoit who is now the president of PTI. You guys started with wanting to get the country rid of corruption but have become slaves to the actually corrupt lot, knowingly defending them day and night coz your ego cannot handle that your partly is rulled by a proven corrupt gang.

As for foreign policy, nobody needs the disaster that was PTI. You have left KPK in ruins and imposed TTP on us with 240% increase in terrorist attacks and a failed 1 month ceasefire after Imran Khan's bootlicking of Taliban once the US left .. he could not hod a ceasefire with them through Decemver 2021 for a month and claims he can handle Pakistan .. let alone showing capability to handle foreign policy where he was kicked out of the plane by Saudis and booted diplomatically by the Chinese.

Funny to see all of this coming from the lot that used to call Army chief the father of nation until 2022. I doubt I ever saw PPP or PMLN celebrate 'Same Page' and taunt others for it while being in power. That kind of slavery award only goes to PTI.

sakht duty is larkay ki!!

lagay raho!

 

[Olympus81]

The crux of the problem is an institution whose job is to be apolitical is downright usurping into other state of affairs.

The constitution is treated like a tissue paper. As one member rightly pointed out, the founder has clearly defined the role of defenders of the country and yet.

So, one is within full rights to continue calling others cultists but also don’t forget the supporters of the said institution are also cultists in a way for supporting their unconstitutional role.

And good luck with the mud slinging.

Apologies for transgressing. Only came back from my absence to focus on the Iran US conflict. Didn’t want to move into the political threads.