PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[Meengla]

https://www.voanews.com/a/former-pa...-negligence-for-rising-terrorism/6958983.html

Sir @Meengla ye link app k lie ha. Juicy part begins at 6:50. Pareshan nai hona mere pehle post se jis pe aap ne wala react kia ha lol

No worries about your reaction to my post. I get a lot of 'Haha' anyway.
As to your video: Hahaha! Good link! "It was not the US who removed him, it was Bajwa who 'somehow' convinced the Americans to remove Imran from power; but the Cypher was still relevant.'
In Urdu, it is said 'Jhoot key paun nahi hotein' (Lies have not feet to stand on). That's our Riyasat e Medina guy! As I said, he is more like a Riyasat e Machivelli!

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Well, even in light of everything you have said above, if the people do not actually do anything to change any of it, then by default they are accepting of their lives.

After all, it is basic human nature to change what bothers them enough, and accept what they find comfortable enough.

It’s like blaming the victim of sex trafficking instead of blaming those who are committing these crimes.

Sorry for using this example, just saw Delhi crimes season 2 on Netflix.

 

[Meengla]

IK reiterated countless time that it's not the military, just America. When people and the military threw Gen Bajwa under the bus, only then he talked about his involvement. Even if we take your idea that IK was involved with the establishment and ployed a rebellion, he would have already weighted the consequences of having a mutiny instead of negotiation

Please look at @hnn post above: Either blame America or not? The same America whose 'Cypher' Imran used for a year to tap into Pakistanis' anti-Americanism to become 'popular'.
As to the bolded part: This is where you and most of Imran's supporters go very wrong. Imran is truly a very stupid political 'brain'. But he had competent people around him who tried, in vain, not to go too far, not to resign from the National and Punjab Assemblies but the guy is absolutely so incredibly stupid that he didn't listen.

Also, I think, forget about Imran's other crimes or allegations against him: He simply violated Pakistan's Constitution by throwing out the No Confidence Motion and for that he, his President Alvi, and the Speaker of the National Assembly should have been booked for that crime. But Pakistanis are too lenient and beating around the bush using Cypher, Toshakhana, Qadri Trust blah blah. Ask ANY legal expert in the world who knows Parliamentary democracy and the verdict on the NCM vote would be swift against Imran.

 

[hnn]

No worries about your reaction to my post. I get a lot of 'Haha' anyway.
As to your video: Hahaha! Good link! "It was not the US who removed him, it was Bajwa who 'somehow' convinced the Americans to remove Imran from power; but the Cypher was still relevant.'
In Urdu, it is said 'Jhoot key paun nahi hotein' (Lies have not feet to stand on). That's our Riyasat e Medina guy! As I said, he is more like a Riyasat e Machivelli!

Yes that was the "backtracking" - Cipher was real, and perhaps even its contents leaked on the internet were also real, but it wasn't a US "imported" conspiracy - as is on record in the words of IK himself. However, I believe in the creativity of people, and am sure alternate explanations to his words on record will be put forward - which would be interesting to read.

 

[VCheng]

It’s like blaming the victim of sex trafficking instead of blaming those who are committing these crimes.

Sorry for using this example, just saw Delhi crimes season 2 on Netflix.

Actually, what it shows is that claiming victimhood is not enough by itself to fix the problem. No one can help a victim until and unless the victim themselves wants to be helped.

Volumes have been written about Victimhood and the Victim Mentality, in case anyone wishes to understand it better in the context of this thread.

 

[Hassan_716]

again not answering my question , let me repeat it again .

why was bushra bibi made a trustee ? its a simple question.

bring it on...have an open court hearing ... let the whole case unfold in front of public .. so they can see how wrong was the man .. why u have to do hearings inside tiny cell .. with little or no media coverage .. why cant people see the debate live .. .. as per you he is a thief so convince your awam by argument .. and prove it in front of them... as awam didn't buy it ....

 

[VCheng]

Yes that was the "backtracking"

LOL. Let us call it what it is - IK just plain LIED about the cipher and that is the truth of it, whether anyone accepts it or not is irrelevant at this point.

 

[Meengla]

Yes that was the "backtracking" - Cipher was real, and perhaps even its contents leaked on the internet were also real, but it wasn't a US "imported" conspiracy - as is on record in the words of IK himself. However, I believe in the creativity of people, and am sure alternate explanations to his words on record will be put forward - which would be interesting to read.

LOL. Let us call it what it is - IK just plain LIED about the cipher and that is the truth of it, whether anyone accepts it or not is irrelevant at this point.

The video link that @hnn post above clearly shows Imran backtracking from the Cypher claim--a claim he used for a year to become popular by blaming America for his ouster. I don't think there is any ambiguity in that video. Not at all. How can Imran back out of that, especially after claiming to make a 'New Pakistan', a 'Riyasat e Medina', no less, is just impossible to see. He outright LIED about the Cypher and while he did so, he was the sitting PM of Pakistan and didn't care for the consequences of any American sanctions on Pakistan, which would have been crippling for Pakistan. But Mr. Silver Spoon All his Life doesn't care for ordinary Pakistanis.

 

[Meengla]

I think IK did a very good job of just blaming the Americans, I mean he used it to keep power but also to not go too far. People who support him think that the military is not corrupt but the people who are selected are, which are selected by the Americans

Sorry to say, you keep posting non-sense. Imran/Pakistani state helped the American withdrawal from Afghanistan and that was the right policy. Imran only starting blaming Americans when Imran was losing power. He, being a student of Machiavelli, must have thought about how to become popular and the low hanging fruit was targeting the Americans for his ouster. Nothing new. ZAB also tried that just when he was losing power in 1977.
Also your claim that it is the Americans who appoint the topmost posts in Pakistan's military is too ridiculous to respond to.

 

[VCheng]

Well assemblies and other plot point were not the problem of the people. Even America was not the problem of the people. I think IK did a very good job of just blaming the Americans, I mean he used it to keep power but also to not go too far. People who support him think that the military is not corrupt but the people who are selected are, which are selected by the Americans. Utterly garbage take however it does one thing, which is to secure the legitimacy of the Pakistan's military as a institution. People like us could understand that America was used like a scapegoat. The scapegoat which helped to blame problems onto another nation while our people don't go apeshit on the military itself, which is why he never intended or wanted do civil war or other drastic measures. He just wanted the military to step down from the establishment role, had he not used the term America and made a storyline about it. It would've been quite bad for the military itself, people already dislike the corrupt officer but many are given leniency because America did this and that it's a ploy by Israel type of thing not because the officers are doing this for themselves and that it benefits them. In a nutshell his use of America helped us not degrade our officers to our politician standards. Again this is my opinion, but I don't like IK and I only support him because he is working for something I want. Much like Muslim living in West supporting the Liberals despite having issues with, simply because it helps to get them rights. Same is with me, what he's doing is wrong or correct is not the concern for me. The only concern is if it helps me and the people, which it totally does as it pushes for more transparent democracy. Also such mutiny was also needed, our liberals at LUMS had already pushing for radical ideas and had more of them population gotten educated, it would have spiralled a nation into a true civil war. So I think having America as a scapegoat to keep our stability is fine.

This post is COMEDY GOLD!

 

[Meengla]

Yeah. That's the point. I'm a little autistic so it's hard to convey my points. I was making fun of people that think that Americans appoint our topmost generals and officer through special officer training abroad. Utterly garbage take on their part. I'm saying that IK use of America as a scapegoat helped our military institution to remain trusted, our people are dumb. They would cling onto a leader like it's their saviors, which is wrong and something IK realized early. If he used the military only, saying America had nothing to do with it but it's the military then people would look to the past. Very easily making up a viewpoint that our military is corrupt to the bones and we should y'know get rid of it. Classic human thought process, something that isn't good should be destroyed without even thinking of the consequences. IK still wanted power and a civil war would ultimately destroy not only his chances but also allow independence of Pakistan to go into jeopardy, hence your idea that IK was inciting a mutiny was wrong. I have a few relative in the military, one of whom was let's just say killed in action despite being a backline officer. He was a Brigadier, everything lines perfectly to political issues between the military brass. So yeah, Faiz being court martial could easily be due to political infighting rather than IK. Again my opinion.

I think there is something more than 'autistic' in your posts.

 

[Watandar]

Yes ok not final because it can be overturned but still a verdict has legal value and implication unless overturned. So the verdict you presented for IK then as a"fact" is not a fact and can be overturned later, and thus doesn't really provide an evidence that he's not guilty of violating OSA. Please pick which argument you want to go forth with

Hint: whichever route you take the end result is the same i.e. either IK and all other politicians are felons, or none of them are

Was every case in entire legal history of Pakistan overturned for you to make such universal declarations ? No.

My argument remains the same, the facts and court verdict prove Imran Khan innocent in the cipher case.

Your insistence on universal extrapolations from one case is what lacks facts and logic, hence the sophistry.

 

[Watandar]

I support the progress of the nation, doesn't matter who leads it.

I don't need to follow some Pervert Messiah who likes installing cameras in women's washrooms and wants his Shaikh Chillis to call him the Leader of Ummah.

He is so deluded, he and his coward delusional cabal believe Pakistan only exists because of him, Pakistan's "Akhri Umeed".

Is breaking the Constitution and selling Pakistani citizens for money your definition of "national progress" ?

 

[Watandar]

LOL. Let us call it what it is - IK just plain LIED about the cipher and that is the truth of it, whether anyone accepts it or not is irrelevant at this point.

Truth isn't irrelevant, which is why Mr Khan was acquitted in cipher case. Truth isn't on your side.

 

[VCheng]

Truth isn't irrelevant, which is why Mr Khan was acquitted in cipher case. Truth isn't on your side.

It's okay by me. IK got what he deserved for telling this "truth". I can accept that just fine.

(NS was acquitted of corruption too, BTW. )