PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[HAIDER]

Well, that's the thing. PTI doesn't need "sympathy" from any quarter. What it needs is justice for how it's been treated like an outcast ever since PM IK was ousted from power through VONC back in 2022.


No, why? WHY should PTI "prove" their loyalty to the soil? WHO decides that anyway? I have never seen any military person to be asked to prove their loyalty to the soil? Why are civilians of Pakistan even asked to "prove" it?


No, it won't. It's not PTI's credibility that is at stake but military establishment's that think of itself as the sole "state" of Pakistan...

Yes, loyalty standards are set by the government institution, not by the Constitution of Pakistan.

 

[Forsvaret]

How much more humiliation must those who support PTI endure?

As long they don't do Baiat of Hazrat Asim Muneer, obviously...

 

[nahtanbob]

It worked only until large numbers of people actively rose up against that very system. All of them fell, one by one.

Nope, it worked -- because Gorbachev made a decision not to use force against protestors.

 

[Blain2]

"anti-Pakistani positions ". : Yes Sir ...set the whole province ablaze in the name of the TTP, as it has been burning for 35 years. A government institution stands above the Constitution of Pakistan.
A Grade-22 army general can derail the entire election process and sideline the party’s leader and founder for two years without a case. His sisters are dragged on the road while waiting to see their brother “under court orders.” How much more humiliation must those who support PTI endure?

Same old circular argument which has been addressed in countless threads. Please focus on the issue raised instead of deflecting. The post was about PTI claims of mass murder of its protestors by the Pakistani law enforcement agencies. Where is the proof?

 

[Goenitz]

Let's not be such a simpleton. If mass murder of demonstrators is happening then there should be some documentary evidence.

Start by listing the names of all those who have been murdered by Police/Rangers please. If individuals have lost their lives, their NICOP information etc. should be available from the families. Where is the evidence for all the people who have been claimed as killed?

The point I am trying to make is that there is an active campaign to make the clamp-down look extremely murderous. The onus is on those who are claiming this to provide proof.

Your example of "rape victim" does not apply here because the PTI crowd claims people were shot and killed in demonstrations. There is bound to be evidence of this if these killings were done at public demonstrations.

You are doing a disservice to Pakistan for the sake of your party by embellishing lies. This is not to say people are not being roughed up, detained and a few protestors have lost their lives in firing incidents, but to paint this as a wholesale mass murder of PTI supporters by Police etc. is an outright lie. Those in the know in PTI also know this, however they are letting the echo-chambers perpetuate these stories to garner sympathy.

I outrightly condemn the treatment of IK's sisters by our jahil police and those who gave the orders. But unfortunately this roughing up isn't exactly unprecedented in Pakistan and at the same time, comes nowhere close to the claims of mass murder of PTI supporters.

1. At least 14 PTI protestors list during 26 Nov massacre were given.
2. https://insaf.pk/news/martyrs-islamabad-massacre-–-26th-november-2024
A total of six casualties due to poor conditions for 9th May cases by the military courts, including Shaikh Latif, Iftikhar, Jamshed Khan.
I don't have their CNIC.
3. I think the above death toll is enough to be termed as a mass shooting, a massacre, etc
4. Ok. The example is not valid.
5. PTI is not my party. I like IK but never voted for him. I just care about human rights. My family mainly vote for PMLN and JI.
6. We all condemn the mistreatment of civilians, whether women or not. No, it is not the new norm. A namazi was thrown off from 2-story tall containers. Many women were beaten in their homes, including Dar's mother, Iqbal's daughter-in-law, etc. If you are including Fatimah Jinnah's treatment, then I accept that it has been the norm.

Pakistan is nothing but its people. If we respect Pakistan, we must respect its institutions (Army is a department). Like here, people respect their country (UK), therefore they follow its laws, courts, council, etc.
Lastly, there is ample footage of army bearing uniform personnel shooting directly during dusk. Then there were spotters on the rooftop.

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Anyway, it is the government's responsibility to protect its people. If it was not the army, was it TTP?

 

[nahtanbob]

And even if the public is outraged beyond belief, what is that "something" they can do about it?

The protestors in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka braved bullets to topple regimes. In the 1980s South Korea and Philippines had successful anti-government protests. Indonesia had massive protests in 1990s to topple Suharto regime.

There are two conclusions to be drawn - either Pakistanis do not care enough to risk their lives or the generals are not oppressive enough for the people to get riled up. I am surprised protestors cannot co-opt the younger ranks of the Pakistani army

 

[KingQamaR]

You Pakistanis have been robbed of a government that would have helped , millions, if not but the majority. Criminals who did this should all be jailed.

 

[Forsvaret]

There are two conclusions to be drawn - either Pakistanis do not care enough to risk their lives or the generals are not oppressive enough for the people to get riled up.

People usually rise up against the oppressive regimes when a certain limit is crossed. What that limit is depends from people to people and regime to regime…

 

[Goenitz]

There are two conclusions to be drawn - either Pakistanis do not care enough to risk their lives or the generals are not oppressive enough for the people to get riled up. I am surprised protestors cannot co-opt the younger ranks of the Pakistani army

So, you have reduced such a complex problem down to two reasons? What about the capital location (distance)? and its population size? then its class size? then foreign involvement? then, people's lasting acceptance of martial law?

 

[Respect4Respect]

It's all in your brainwashed heads.

here are 3 couplets from my unfinished ghazal for simpletons like you

چاپْلُوسی کِی کُوئی تُو حَد ہُوتی ہے
آپ جِسے گَھوڑی کَہتے ہیں وَہ کھوتی ہے (Establishment)

گَاڑِیوں بَنگلوں کا نَہیں پُوچھئیے
اِن غَریبوں کا مَسئلہ فَقَط رُوٹی ہے (awaam)

شَوق سے ظالِموں کِی غُلامی کَریں
آپ کا کیا دَوش جَب سُوچ ہی چُھوٹی ہے (Patwari Faujeets)

 

[VCheng]

1. At least 14 PTI protestors list during 26 Nov massacre were given.
2. https://insaf.pk/news/martyrs-islamabad-massacre-–-26th-november-2024
A total of six casualties due to poor conditions for 9th May cases by the military courts, including Shaikh Latif, Iftikhar, Jamshed Khan.
I don't have their CNIC.
3. I think the above death toll is enough to be termed as a mass shooting, a massacre, etc

Please explain this quote from your link and its significance:

Disclaimer
We do not currently have exact data on the martyrs, missing and arrested PTI workers and supporters. Efforts are underway to collect and verify this information as we work tirelessly to trace all our people.


Until and unless these efforts provide the data needed, NONE of what has been reported thus far can be taken at face value.

 

[Hussain]

And? What’s wrong with Islamic touch in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan? Do you Bughaz-e-Imranis have an issue with that too?

glad you said this.....

 

[Dalit]

As long they don't do Baiat of Hazrat Asim Muneer, obviously...

This isn't Asim Munir's making. Asim is just handpicked to continue where Bajwa left off. The real architects are Bajwa and the international players. Bajwa simply followed instructions and the agitation eventually became a personal grudge.

Imran Khan was deemed a threat by certain powerful international players. Pakistan is an Islamic nuclear power and many of its adversaries and so-called friends don't want a vocal leader in this country. Imran Khan was vocal. Too vocal to the liking of international powers.

 

[Abdul q]

This isn't Asim Munir's making. Asim is just handpicked to continue where Bajwa left off. The real architects are Bajwa and the international players.

Imran Khan was deemed a threat by certain powerful international players. Pakistan is an Islamic nuclear power and many of its adversaries don't want a vocal leader in this country.

Asim and everyone HANDPICKED is innocent if that’s what you’re trying to say??

 

[Goenitz]

Please explain this quote from your link and its significance:

Disclaimer
We do not currently have exact data on the martyrs, missing and arrested PTI workers and supporters. Efforts are underway to collect and verify this information as we work tirelessly to trace all our people.


Until and unless these efforts provide the data needed, NONE of what has been reported thus far can be taken at face value.

Good man. You found the counter-argument in that blog while title says otherwise.
Anyway, please read the disclaimer again. They are also saying that PTI cannot provide all/the exact data for missing, arrested and martyrs.