PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[Forsvaret]

Except that the Saudis do not want him at all, after what he tried to do.

Aww. Saudi masters of Pakistan do not want to give asylum to Imran Khan. Pity!

 

[Forsvaret]

Right. But I still wish they take him in as a HUGE FAVOR to Pakistan!

Huh? WHY should any country "take" Imran Khan when he rather prefers to stay in prison in Pakistan?

 

[Forsvaret]

And just to be clear , SS and the present setup is not any different either. That is just the next act in the same circus.

But the present setup is not relevant at all despite military establishment is trying their very best to push them at the center stage too!

 

[hasssanali8998]

61 pages of crying , you guys have too much time man .

 

[Forsvaret]

…but other side of the game, he is inarcerated and not in the position to form a strategy.

Then why the top engineers of the present setup are giving themselves lifetime immunity from any future prosecution in Pakistani courts?

 

[Forsvaret]

Just for the sake of "no one would care listening" he has to change course which is to negotiate with army, head down and bid time.

IK will NEVER do any kind of deal with military establishment as long its current man in charge is Hazrat Asim Muneer. That ship sailed long time ago!

 

[Forsvaret]

…if Pakistan army can settle the score once and for all, I can accept a military dictatorship for 10 years.

And that’s like "good" for Pakistan in the long run? Have we actually learnt absolutely nothing from past military dictatorships in the country?

 

[Forsvaret]

And just now, despite his party veterans' appeals, he made another terrible choice by largely boycotting the by-elections. It is well understood by now in Pakistani politics to not let your opposition have a free hit despite the odds by boycotting the elections and yet he ignored his advisors again! Benazir Bhutto lamented her party's boycott of the 1985 elections till decades later, as did MQM when they gave the ground to Jamat e Islami.

Hasina Wajid’s party Awami League kept "winning" elections for years because main opposition party BNP boycotted those fraud elections. Eventually, the people of Bangladesh rose up against that setup and forced Hasina out of power. Now her party Awami League that used to "win" elections is banned from running in future elections.

 

[SaadH]

Huh? But in this same thread, you said earlier that you actually supported IK until 2022. So which one is it?

Secular khooni liberals who got off watching mutilated children's bodies after drone attacks back in the war of terror days were never supporters of Taliban Khan.

 

[VCheng]

But I am happy with the current arrangement. I always liked Shahbaz Sharif anyway and I despise his elder brother almost as much as I despise Imran.

I am not happy with the current arrangement, to be clear, but then again I would be far unhappier with the realistic alternatives, so I guess SS wins by virtue of being lesser of the possible evils.

Realism wins over idealism any day with me.

The reason is very simple: anyone or any setup that can deliver economically is preferable to one that is ideally Constitutional, given the deep doldrums Pakistan finds itself in currently.

The time to move towards better rule of law under the Constitution will unfortunately have to wait until we have a few more rupees to be able to aspire towards such higher goals of a civilized society.

 

[Forsvaret]

The reason is very simple: anyone or any setup that can deliver economically…

Pakistan’s military dictatorships in the past "delivered" economically for a short-term followed by many years of economic stagnation. Ergo, this is what you always get when a political setup ain’t organic but kept afloat through artificial means.

 

[Meengla]

The reason is very simple: anyone or any setup that can deliver economically is preferable to one that is ideally Constitutional, given the deep doldrums Pakistan finds itself in currently.
The time to move towards better rule of law under the Constitution will unfortunately have to wait until we have a few more rupees to be able to aspire towards such higher goals of a civilized society.

I have come to conclude that pinning hopes in 'democracy' as a panacea is too much idealism. Every country's situation is different. We can see countries with 'totalitarian' systems progressed after some decades of stability, focus and continuation of policies. And we can see 'democratic' countries, without even external threats and without internal widespread terrorism such as Sri Lanka defaulted. And I see how Bangladesh progressed during the 'authoritarian' Hasina Wajid's long rule.

So I have decided to be on side of the caution and put my faith in a rigidly controlled 'hybrid' system where the military acts like a Godfather to manage the civilians to 'perform'. At any rate despite Imran's supporter wailing, the current Parliament of Pakistan does have a large number of genuine people's representatives, for whatever they are worth.
We work with what's the best available.

 

[Forsvaret]

And I see how Bangladesh progressed during the 'authoritarian' Hasina Wajid's long rule.

And where exactly is this authoritarian Hasina Wajid residing right now and what became of her authoritarian party Awami League?

 

[Cipher212]

I am not happy with the current arrangement, to be clear, but then again I would be far unhappier with the realistic alternatives, so I guess SS wins by virtue of being lesser of the possible evils.

Realism wins over idealism any day with me.

The reason is very simple: anyone or any setup that can deliver economically is preferable to one that is ideally Constitutional, given the deep doldrums Pakistan finds itself in currently.

The time to move towards better rule of law under the Constitution will unfortunately have to wait until we have a few more rupees to be able to aspire towards such higher goals of a civilized society.

This is exactly the arguement that military uses to justify their dictatorships and hybrid governments. That we cannot have a proper civilian setup because we are going through tough times or we don't have the money to have a civilian setup, or that if we let a pure civilian government have the reigns in Pakistan then the whole country would somehow collapse.

Oh the tough time is over? Create another one! Afghanistan border activate kardo, sleeper cell activate kardo, activate TLP in Punjab and MQM in Karachi! Create a myth that Americans will bomb us to the stone age if we don't meet all 21 of their demands!

 

[VCheng]

I have come to conclude that pinning hopes in 'democracy' as a panacea is too much idealism. Every country's situation is different. We can see countries with 'totalitarian' systems progressed after some decades of stability, focus and continuation of policies. And we can see 'democratic' countries, without even external threats and without internal widespread terrorism such as Sri Lanka defaulted. And I see how Bangladesh progressed during the 'authoritarian' Hasina Wajid's long rule.

So I have decided to be on side of the caution and put my faith in a rigidly controlled 'hybrid' system where the military acts like a Godfather to manage the civilians to 'perform'. At any rate despite Imran's supporter wailing, the current Parliament of Pakistan does have a large number of genuine people's representatives, for whatever they are worth.
We work with what's the best available.

I don't know if you recall an article I wrote for PDF back in the day explaining my thoughts on the pros and cons of an openly hybrid civil-military model of governance. My be it is time to resurrect that discussion in a different thread again?