PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[Forsvaret]

This is exactly the arguement that military uses to justify their dictatorships and hybrid governments. That we cannot have a proper civilian setup because we are going through tough times or we don't have the money to have a civilian setup, or that if we let a pure civilian government have the reigns in Pakistan then the whole country would somehow collapse.

Exactly! And know-it-all @VCheng actually bought himself into their crap!

 

[VCheng]

This is exactly the arguement that military uses to justify their dictatorships and hybrid governments. That we cannot have a proper civilian setup because we are going through tough times or we don't have the money to have a civilian setup, or that if we let a pure civilian government have the reigns in Pakistan then the whole country would somehow collapse.

You are correct here, but the problem is exactly what the military has achieved over the past five decades: It has successfully eliminated, sideline and destroyed every other working institution that could potentially replace it in a properly Constitutional setup.

Now that the patient has been on this forced ventilator for such a long time, weaning off the requirement cannot be undertaken without the patient being able to breathe without it. And the longer the ventilator stays in place, the harder it is to wean off successfully.

That is why one must accept the stranglehold the military has, while working towards changing the system from within slowly, as well as investing in education and health of the people.

There is no other viable choice, unfortunately, and there is no quick or effective solution.

 

[Meengla]

I don't know if you recall an article I wrote for PDF back in the day explaining my thoughts on the pros and cons of an openly hybrid civil-military model of governance. My be it is time to resurrect that discussion in a different thread again?

Yes, please. I am curious to see what are your thoughts. I have formed some rather hard opinion though and it is basically, to quote Bill Clinton, 'It is the economy, stupid!' like of logic.

 

[Forsvaret]

That is why one must accept the stranglehold the military has, while working towards changing the system from within slowly…

Huh? "Changing" the system from within? Like IK and other civilian leaders tried before him and failed miserably?

 

[Meengla]

That is why one must accept the stranglehold the military has, while working towards changing the system from within slowly, as well as investing in education and health of the people.
There is no other viable choice, unfortunately, and there is no quick or effective solution.

Right.
Education is key here. But that can't come without stability, focus, and continuation of policies. And that can't come unless and until all the stakeholders decide to play for longterm gains. We can't have a 'system' where some Nawaz or some Imran or some Bhutto marches on Islamabad every time they lose the elections. And on that count, while the Bhuttos and Sharifs have learned to 'adapt', Imran is too stupid to play the long game.

 

[Forsvaret]

Education is key here…

Huh? How is education "the key" here when the vote of that educated electorate is still stolen by the very same military establishment in every election?

 

[Forsvaret]

But that can't come without stability, focus, and continuation of policies.

How’d continuation of authoritarian policies magically result in democratic change long-term?

 

[Forsvaret]

And on that count, while the Bhuttos and Sharifs have learned to 'adapt', Imran is too stupid to play the long game.

And while Bhuttos and Sharifs have adopted to boot licking, Imran Khan is too stubborn to play the long boot licking game.

 

[Forsvaret]

We can't have a 'system' where some Nawaz or some Imran or some Bhutto marches on Islamabad every time they lose the elections.

Neither can we have a "system" where the votes of Pakistani citizens are stolen by military establishment in every elections!

 

[gamaji]

yes... by making Mr. 10% the president of Pakistan.

Congratulations!

I am not siding the accused but whatever evidence you have should be presented and proved valid in a court of law rather than farting on the Internet..

 

[Forsvaret]

I am not siding the accused but whatever evidence you have should be presented and proved valid in a court of law…

So you are actually saying that the recent 27th amendment which literally abolished the Supreme Court of Pakistan is still a "valid court of law"?

 

[Meengla]

I am not siding the accused but whatever evidence you have should be presented and proved valid in a court of law rather than farting on the Internet..

The "Mr. 10%" label on Zardari was placed by the Sharifs in the 80s and , in return, the Bhuttos placed some serious charges on the Sharifs. And in their respective efforts to malign each other, the Establishment duly contributed over 3-4 decades and the charges have stuck. If you see all three players--the same three entities which PTI is targeting, they are the one who put those charges against each other. PTI was nowhere to be seen. So, logically, PTI accepts that those parties were right in their charges--that they are credible enough then. Except, of course, when anything those three entities charge PTI with, then those three entities are not credible.
Logic 101 or iLL-Logic 101?!1

 

[Forsvaret]

The "Mr. 10%" label on Zardari was placed by the Sharifs in the 80s and , in return, the Bhuttos placed some serious charges on the Sharifs. And in their respective efforts to malign each other, the Establishment duly contributed over 3-4 decades and the charges have stuck. If you see all three players--the same three entities which PTI is targeting, they are the one who put those charges against each other. PTI was nowhere to be seen. So, logically, PTI accepts that those parties were right in their charges--that they are credible enough then. Except, of course, when anything those three entities charge PTI with, then those three entities are not credible.

PTI made a serious blunder all those years. It should have targeted the biggest corrupt party of them all. Hint: It’s neither PMLN nor PPP.

 

[gamaji]

So you are actually saying that the recent 27th amendment which literally abolished the Supreme Court of Pakistan is still a "valid court of law"?

How was it abolished? It was reformed to rescue the higher judiciary from the jaws of crooks.

 

[delta2]

Please do not merge into any thread. Thank you. In our culture, we don't attack women or old women who have already crossed 70 years ...extremely sad.

It is a very toxic, poinsonous and corrupt culture. Oppression has been the standard way of dealing with people in the Pakistani culture, especially those seen as the weak. The only difference is it wad not readily available on video to see the real reality.


It is a horribly opprressive culture.