PTI news, updates and discussions part ll

[Goenitz]

The majority of lawyers are compromised......fully compromised. In front of the camera and behind the camera, totally different thoughts.

The lawyers involved bar politics are compromised mainly. They just extort money from the clients and the government. They need plots, clubs memberships, and care nothing about the rule of law.

 

[Goenitz]

Muneera and his GHQ goons are well on their way at the receiving end of generational hate.

He doesn't care about it as it doesn't hurt his self-interests. He cares nothing about the army, Pakistan, his legacy and chivalry. He is just an opportunist who is using PA as a tool.

 

[Goenitz]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." Let people say what they may. It is actions that matter.

As long as people are content to tweet furiously and not do much else, the status quo remains in place just fine.

The statement suits an individual.
To manage a country, an Asian proverb is "an army can seize a country, but the stories keep it".

A representative government would care about people's voices. Asim Munir is treating Pakistanis either as adversaries or followers.

He uses guns and violence to silence those who oppose him. Then he doubles down to silence who can speak. So, you can say it hurts him at some level, but not much.

Asim is just a selfish individual who cares nothing about human lives, country, legacy, sentiments, etc.

 

[Taimoor]

He doesn't care about it as it doesn't hurt his self-interests. He cares nothing about the army, Pakistan, his legacy and chivalry. He is just an opportunist who is using PA as a tool.

He will jet off just like Faiz Isa the day after his rule becomes unattainable, Army as the institution would be left holding the mess. Muneer fanboys dismiss our concerns as some cultist ideas, not realising, these are genuine issues with short and long term consequences for Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

A representative government would care about people's voices.

That is a fallacy. No, it won't, because it will be on the "same page" while it is in power, and out if it is not.

 

[Mobius]

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[Watandar]

Khooni liberals working off fascist playbook, that is their only MO....

I have heard of this term "khooni liberals" but what does it mean ? Is it same as "liberal fascist" ?

 

[SaadH]

I have heard of this term "khooni liberals" but what does it mean ? Is it same as "liberal fascist" ?

The term in Pakistani contest originates during the hay day of US war of terror particularly at the height of drone warfare against civilians of Pakistani FATA with full cooperation and support of our Mir Jaffer progeny mil-establishment jamedars. And refers to all those liberals who marched in women's right demonstrations previously, protested and criticized the narrow minded religious/conservative view points and exulted the virtues of universal human rights, tolerance and shunned violence somehow were cheering on in euphoria the killings of their less equal countrymen in the tribal areas.

 

[Venom]

So where is the "widespread" public support that everyone here keeps claiming? The world seems to have moved on from IK, with only his family standing by his side now, it seems.

Pakistani qoom is not known for any revolutions or mass struggle - unless its religiously motivated with state backing of some sort. Now this doesn’t mean PTI and IK is not the most widely supported leader. Here the measure of popularity is only on the basis of votes the party can get in a fair election - the last election result, despite being unfair, show PTI winning the most seats - and if voting results were not illegally changed then it would have easily been able to get majority seats. So to your point, PTI voters are not really militants or revolutionaries but middle class people who will at the most vote in polling booths. This is the same situation that PMLN had with Musharaff, where NS would have won any elections but was forced out with military power.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistani qoom is not known for any revolutions or mass struggle - unless its religiously motivated with state backing of some sort.

Agreed. That is how IK came and went, too.

Now this doesn’t mean PTI and IK is not the most widely supported leader.

But it does mean exactly that, since you already mention above that "popular" support is only what is manufactured by state backing, as and when needed.

Being accepting of only one election that suits your preferred candidate, while ignoring the other elections that do not is hypocrisy, plain and simple. IK was manufactured and installed by the same people that dismantled and removed him. IK came and went just the same as all the others.

You may of course continue to disagree with the above, but the facts in evidence clearly show that what I have said above remains correct.

 

[Venom]

Agreed. That is how IK came and went, too.



But it does mean exactly that, since you already mention above that "popular" support is only what is manufactured by state backing, as and when needed.

Being accepting of only one election that suits your preferred candidate, while ignoring the other elections that do not is hypocrisy, plain and simple. IK was manufactured and installed by the same people that dismantled and removed him. IK came and went just the same as all the others.

You may of course continue to disagree with the above, but the facts in evidence clearly show that what I have said above remains correct.

You are mis characterizing a few out of context statements and then going off on one dimension against PTI. First I didn’t say popular support is just manufactured by army - I specifically mentioned about a revolution or mass protest movement, where a mob over throws a government by force e. The absence of such street protest led movement doesn’t mean absence of population support. If thats the case then Gen Sisi is not unpopular as every thing is honky dory there? These are illogical arguments. Pakistani people at the most will vote out peacefully rather than get butchered or tortured at state’s hand.
This doesn’t mean Pakistanis are cowards as our region has seen when backed by state the people are capable of taking on bigger enemies - Afghan war and other (mis)adventures come to mind. The only people led movement in Pakistan that won over establishment by force was by Bengalis, but that also had Indian support.

“Being accepting of only one election that suits your preferred candidate, while ignoring the other elections that do not is hypocrisy, plain and simple. IK was manufactured and installed by the same people that dismantled and removed him. IK came and went just the same as all the others
“
So what do you want to discuss? Who is the biggest and most popular party now or was in the past? Sure in the 90s and 2000s it fluctuated between PMLN and PPPP. But now due to demographic changes and army’s open exposure has put all the mass support behind PTI and IK; but Pakistani psychology is not up for revolution or over throwing govt by force. You don't want to acknowledge these realities and want to use two wrongs making a right then thats your choice.

 

[VCheng]

Who is the biggest and most popular party now or was in the past? Sure in the 90s and 2000s it fluctuated between PMLN and PPPP. But now due to demographic changes and army’s open exposure has put all the mass support behind PTI and IK; but Pakistani psychology is not up for revolution or over throwing govt by force.

ALL of these parties come to power with the military's help, and leave power the same way. And the people of Pakistan accept the change of facades very reliably.

You don't want to acknowledge these realities and want to use two wrongs making a right then thats your choice.

The reality is what I have said above. I have never, and will never, support any of the wrongs that the military does. And if you choose to think that IK is somehow different than all the other charlatans brought in and removed by the military, then that is your choice.

 

[Goenitz]

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[VCheng]

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Dr. KAM is right about the need for ongoing evaluation and treatment as indicated by a retinal specialist. His comments about the treatment provided at PIMS by their specialist are valid as he said them, nothing more and nothing less.

IK has received the correct treatment thus far, the only question here is the issue of trust and verification by named doctors, which may or may not be allowed.

 

[Oscar]

Dr. KAM is right about the need for ongoing evaluation and treatment as indicated by a retinal specialist. His comments about the treatment provided at PIMS by their specialist are valid as he said them, nothing more and nothing less.

IK has received the correct treatment thus far, the only question here is the issue of trust and verification by named doctors, which may or may not be allowed.

There is also the question of baseline -
fictional e.g. If the Ultrasound lab in PIMS is filthy and pathetic but the machine works - you could argue that an individual was given bad treatment but that is the baseline for everyone. However, if the results of the ultrasound are going to be the same and meet the requirements that are needed for effective treatment - what is the impact of stating treatment was bad?
On the other hand if the Ultrasound machine has issues then you can argue further.
Moreover, if it turns out the PIMS machine is the best available in Pakistan(as an example) then you have a greater issue of treatment not being available in country.

If, there is a verified record of the condition IK has being treated successfully in Pakistan by doctors with good peer reviews and those same individuals are also treating IK, then the objection tends to be diluted.