Russia-Ukraine War - News, Discussions & Updates
- Thread starter ghazi52
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Han Patriot
Registered Member
I guess the deaths are roughly the same both sides plus minus 5%. Well nothing to do with China, we don't want war and want to trade but NATO just want to stir up shit everywhere. Anyway thank you America for pushing Russia to us.
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
You are right on the money on the RCH 155 roughly 166 to be in service in the UK by 2030 with expectations for around 230 to be in service.
The only other two that come to mind are:
Spear 5 [UK/Persus[FR] aka [FOSW:Fture Offensive Surface Weapon] is expected to be enter service in 2030 however present circumstances may expedite production. Operators will include UK, France and Italy. The Spear 5 FOSW/Future Curise weapon is expected to replace the British and Italian Stormashadow, British Tomahawk and French Exocet stockpiles.
Two weapon systems the TP15 [Subsonic] developed by the UK and the RJ10 [Supersonic] developed by France are in the works meant to compliment each other.
More here:
SPEAR Missile - Think Defence
The SPEAR (Selective Precision Effects At Range) missile, formally known as SPEAR Capability 3 or SPEAR 3, represents the United Kingdom’s next-generation air-to-surface precision strike weapon Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Capability 3 is the name given to a Category A project...
www.thinkdefence.co.uk
Breakstop [UK]
Key Specs:
- Range: >500 km
- Payload: 200-300 kg (Mk 82 bomb sized payload)
- Speed: Approximately 600 km/h
- Launch: Ground-launched from a mobile platform
- Cost: Target cost of £400,000 per delivery platform (excluding VAT)
- Guidance: Operable in GPS-denied environments, resistant to EW attacks
- Scalability: Minimum production rate of 20 units per month
This one may not see service till late 2030 as it's still in bidding phase.
j_hungary
Professional
Hmm, was thinking about Future Cruise missile as well but would you think UK will give or sell that high tech stuff to Ukraine? I can see LPS GMLRS can be transferred as it is similar sort of weapon with ATACMS, but I think spear 5 is probably a bit too advance for the UK to transfer to Ukraine.You are right on the money on the RCH 155 roughly 166 to be in service in the UK by 2030 with expectations for around 230 to be in service.
The only other two that come to mind are:
Spear 5 [UK/Persus[FR] aka [FOSW:Fture Offensive Surface Weapon] is expected to be enter service in 2030 however present circumstances may expedite production. Operators will include UK, France and Italy. The Spear 5 FOSW/Future Curise weapon is expected to replace the British and Italian Stormashadow, British Tomahawk and French Exocet stockpiles.
Two weapon systems the TP15 [Subsonic] developed by the UK and the RJ10 [Supersonic] developed by France are in the works meant to compliment each other.
More here:
SPEAR Missile - Think Defence
The SPEAR (Selective Precision Effects At Range) missile, formally known as SPEAR Capability 3 or SPEAR 3, represents the United Kingdom’s next-generation air-to-surface precision strike weapon Selective Precision Effects at Range (SPEAR) Capability 3 is the name given to a Category A project...
Breakstop [UK]
Key Specs:
^
- Range: >500 km
- Payload: 200-300 kg (Mk 82 bomb sized payload)
- Speed: Approximately 600 km/h
- Launch: Ground-launched from a mobile platform
- Cost: Target cost of £400,000 per delivery platform (excluding VAT)
- Guidance: Operable in GPS-denied environments, resistant to EW attacks
- Scalability: Minimum production rate of 20 units per month
This one may not see service till late 2030 as it's still in bidding phase.
If there is a ceasefire, Ukraine will need to heavily depends upon Europe military development for its own military, we can safely assume US is going to be out of the picture at least until 2028, and Russia is highly likely to try again somewhere in 2030, and this time it will be a full on, which mean Ukraine will need to have stuff that can hit rear staging area.
On the other hand, I think beside the UK, France and German, Turkey could be a very good partner for Ukraine to get top tier equipment. The Ukrainian already have a good relationship with the Turks, so maybe we could also mix in Turkey development in the fold.
Another question is, would you think South Korea is a good alternative? South Korea won't sell to country actively at war, but this may change during the ceasefire period.
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
I suppose you are correct in terms of transfer of FC weapons systems to Ukraine. Perhaps UK/Italy donate some of their surplus stockpile of StormShadow to Ukraine post 2030? But this doesn't cover the immediate needs of Ukraine.
The UK has committed to supplying Ukraine with 650 Lightweight Multirole Missiles. [1] This is in addition to the £3 billion a year of military support for Ukraine until 2030/31 and as per the UK PM - "for as long as needed". [2]
Partnership with South Korea at this stage would be a great start, they have the capability to supply at scale. The ceasefire would allow Ukraine to rearm and recuperate.
Europe must work at pace to develop a credible deterrent along its eastern border with Russia if any future adventurism from Putin is to be prevented. Being honest if I were Putin emboldened by recent developments, Moldova would be looking increasingly enticing right now.
[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...efence-secretary-meets-international-partners
[2] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-stand-with-ukraine-for-as-long-as-it-takes-pm-to-tell-nato
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
@j_hungary since thus far POTUS has ruled out US boots on the ground for any policing operation in Ukraine, in your opinion, outside the limited personnel UK/EU can provide and we have mentioned S. Korea which other International partners do you envisage filling the gap?
Personally I don't think this can be accomplished without direct involvement of the US and their military clout.
Personally I don't think this can be accomplished without direct involvement of the US and their military clout.
Developereo
Elite Member
A 'disgrace' and a 'clown': JD Vance's 'random country' comment riles Britain and France
Vice President JD Vance said a U.S. economic deal in Ukraine was a 'better security guarantee than 20,000 troops from some random country.'
www.usatoday.com
A 'disgrace' and a 'clown': JD Vance's 'random country' comment riles Britain and France
Those were some of the headlines published by Britain's tabloid newspapers Wednesday after U.S. Vice President JD Vance said that an American economic deal in Ukraine was a "better security guarantee" for a potential peace deal with Russia "than 20,000 troops from some random country that hasn’t fought a war in 30 or 40 years."
RescueRanger
Meme Lord
I guess Mr. Vance slept though the Afghan and Iraq wars?A 'disgrace' and a 'clown': JD Vance's 'random country' comment riles Britain and France
Vice President JD Vance said a U.S. economic deal in Ukraine was a 'better security guarantee than 20,000 troops from some random country.'
A 'disgrace' and a 'clown': JD Vance's 'random country' comment riles Britain and France
Those were some of the headlines published by Britain's tabloid newspapers Wednesday after U.S. Vice President JD Vance said that an American economic deal in Ukraine was a "better security guarantee" for a potential peace deal with Russia "than 20,000 troops from some random country that hasn’t fought a war in 30 or 40 years."
j_hungary
Professional
The line cannot be held without US, even if it goes Zelenskyy way and EU send 110,000 troop to tie in the border with the existing Ukrainian guard. Russia is going to try again and break that line unless NATO membership was granted, but if Trump or MAGA is still in power, then effectively even NATO membership is probably pointless.
What Ukraine lack is 2 things. Available Manpower and Available Equipment.
Manpower is easy, once this war ends its active stage, whoever in charge of Ukraine will most likely enact conscription act, that will expand both active and reserve manpower. The will need to double their available manpower and have a reserve corps modelled after the Israeli. Then they also need to greatly expand their Armored Corps and Air Force, currently there are 3 armoured Brigade in Ukraine (1st, 3rd and 4th), they need at least 12, what they should do is to make these Brigade organic. Because they are going to face 2 frontlines, Capital Front (Ukrainian border with Belarus) and Southern Front (Main Donbas Line) both front would have to be heavily defended with both Armour and Air Asset. The Ukrainian will also need to expand their Air Force with 4 to 5 active Wing Command, which mean they will need about 200+ Western Fighter Jet to couple with whatever legacy Soviet Jet they were flying, Russia is very artillery heavy, the only way you can fend off Russian attack is with heavy air power, that's what the West had been doing since 1949.
For the Peacekeeping Force, the first thing you need to ask is that Peacekeeping Force have certain degree of self-containment and decision making element, otherwise even if you can get 110,000 peacekeeping force Zelenskyy Asked, it's no good if they are just going to melt away first sign of contact. EU force is great, and you don't actually need a lot, as said before, Ukraine have infantry, they have a lot of infantry, but what they need is the ability to deploy force rapidly and stemming attack before it was out of control. You are expecting the Russian to come at Ukraine again with multiple fronts and with multiple point, you got to have the capability to hit all those point before they went in too deep like they had in the first 2 months in this war, majority of the land Ukrainian ceded is from the first 2 months of engagement of this war, they are now just covering the deficit, so the importance of a Quick Reaction Force to deal with mobile threat is extremely important. Which mean you need Western Air Power more than Western boots on ground. If US decided to bug out, then you will need a Unified European Air Command to monitor Russian action 24/7. You will also need 4 to 5 EU/NATO Squadron (ideally, UK, France, Germany, Italy and/or Canada would send a squadron each) and augmenting the UAF on the frontline. Which should give them a good 10 to 12 Squadrons. Another things these Peacekeeper should take is Anti-Air capability, this, along with Air Power is what Ukraine sorely needed if there is a ceasefire and no security guarantee. It wouldn't matter if the Peacekeeping force is from EU or Japan or Korea, I doubt the latter two will participate. Maybe country like Australia or New Zealand will take part? I am not sure. Mostly this is going to be EU troop though.
What I think will happen if a ceasefire deal is signed by the end of this year. Ukraine will have 10 years or so to reconstitute its force, what they will do is again, first, get conscription in probably for both sexes, and then they will most likely be using their resource (grain, oil, gas and REM) to make deal with EU and/or other country, like South Korea in exchange for Military equipment. Expanding Ukrainian Warfighting Capability and then augmented by an Interim European Force that focus on Air and Armor, that's probably what Ukraine needs to plug the gap.
Developereo
Elite Member
I guess Mr. Vance slept though the Afghan and Iraq wars?
I think it was a Freudian slip which acknowledges that all recent 'NATO' wars have really been American wars with a few 'random countries' sprinkled on to give an international appearance.
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