Russia-Ukraine War - News, Discussions & Updates

[j_hungary]

Putin's arguments that I've heard in speeches are: Ukraine was going NATO. That will literally bring NATO to Russia's doors. So close that Moscow can be reached through air within 2-3 minutes via supersonic jets and missiles from many places in Ukraine. So he wants depth for Russia's protection.

Apparently, there was an agreement by NATO that they will not expand eastwards beyond countries X,Y. But they did. So Russia needs a buffer zone between itself and NATO. So per Putin, this is between Russia trying to defend itself from future NATO attacks. Ukraine just really happens to be a country next door.

He says he will do ceasefire if Ukraine agrees to a buffer zone and assurity of not joining NATO.

This is in NO means a justification or even a valid argument to attack a sovereign nation. Just thought I'd share what I've learned from Putin's speech to media many times.

Mikhail Gorbachev said on an interview of RT Owned Russian Beyond The Headline actually said such topic was not even discussed by the NATO during the negotiations of East Germany between Baker and him.

Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls

The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.

www.rbth.com

 

[Ё-МАЁ]

No binding agreement on NATO expansion was reached. Putin himself said so in an interview with Oliver Stone. The agreement was verbal, and nothing was signed.

This verbal agreement is also binding, even if it is not confirmed by signatures.

 

[Viet]

Putin's arguments that I've heard in speeches are: Ukraine was going NATO. That will literally bring NATO to Russia's doors. So close that Moscow can be reached through air within 2-3 minutes via supersonic jets and missiles from many places in Ukraine. So he wants depth for Russia's protection.

Apparently, there was an agreement by NATO that they will not expand eastwards beyond countries X,Y. But they did. So Russia needs a buffer zone between itself and NATO. So per Putin, this is between Russia trying to defend itself from future NATO attacks. Ukraine just really happens to be a country next door.

He says he will do ceasefire if Ukraine agrees to a buffer zone and assurity of not joining NATO.

This is in NO means a justification or even a valid argument to attack a sovereign nation. Just thought I'd share what I've learned from Putin's speech to media many times.

Putin is a cheap spy who spews endless cheap propaganda. he knows very well Ukraine will not join the NATO because Germany, France vetoed.

this war is much like hundreds other wars. it’s always about lands, people and natural resources. only the excuse is different.

 

[RajaBaja]

Mikhail Gorbachev said on an interview of RT Owned Russian Beyond The Headline actually said such topic was not even discussed by the NATO during the negotiations of East Germany between Baker and him.

View attachment 136332

Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls

The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.

www.rbth.com

No binding agreement on NATO expansion was reached. Putin himself said so in an interview with Oliver Stone. The agreement was verbal, and nothing was signed.

This matter was discussed with the US administration then. The US told the Russians the NATO didn't have planned deep Eastern moves. You are quoting what these people say in Public. Or, may be Gorbachev doesn't like Putin. Not sure. But this agreement should've been put in Ink instead of verbal assurances.

Putin is a cheap spy who spews endless cheap propaganda. he knows very well Ukraine will not join the NATO because Germany, France vetoed.

this war is much like hundreds other wars. it’s always about lands, people and natural resources. only the excuse is different.

I don't know what "sources" you have, but let me assure you, within ONE year of a ceasefire, Ukraine will officially be in NATO.

 

[Ё-МАЁ]

I don't know what "sources" you have, but let me assure you, within ONE year of a ceasefire, Ukraine will officially be in NATO.

Chickens are counted in autumn . In 2014, Ukraine declared to the whole world that Crimea would return within a year.

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

This matter was discussed with the US administration then. The US told the Russians the NATO didn't have planned deep Eastern moves. You are quoting what these people say in Public. Or, may be Gorbachev doesn't like Putin. Not sure. But this agreement should've been put in Ink instead of verbal assurances.



I don't know what "sources" you have, but let me assure you, within ONE year of a ceasefire, Ukraine will officially be in NATO.

Considering NATO has been on Russia's "doorstep" for years, the whole argument about encircling Russia has been bogus from the get-go.

 

[Ё-МАЁ]

Considering NATO has been on Russia's "doorstep" for years, the whole argument about encircling Russia has been bogus from the get-go.

NATO has been trying to surround Russia for a long time. Russia has repeatedly stated that these actions are causing it great stress, and Ukraine was the last straw, after which it was no longer possible to tolerate them. Ukraine is the best outpost, a springboard for attack. Enemies, friends, and even those who try to be neutral know and guess this. But they do not speak openly about it. Who would talk about their evil intentions?

 

[AZ_HighCountry]

NATO has been trying to surround Russia for a long time. Russia has repeatedly stated that these actions are causing it great stress, and Ukraine was the last straw, after which it was no longer possible to tolerate them. Ukraine is the best outpost, a springboard for attack. Enemies, friends, and even those who try to be neutral know and guess this. But they do not speak openly about it. Who would talk about their evil intentions?

 

[RajaBaja]

Considering NATO has been on Russia's "doorstep" for years, the whole argument about encircling Russia has been bogus from the get-go.

I'm not saying its right or wrong. I'm just saying what Putin's argument is. Its not a justification to attack a sovereign country but then the world is filled with these examples. Might is right. We all scream when one of our favorites gets attacked and close our eyes when it's someone we don't really care for.

 

[RajaBaja]

Chickens are counted in autumn . In 2014, Ukraine declared to the whole world that Crimea would return within a year.

Read my message above. Using chickens and some useless proverb that no one understands doesn't make a valid point.

 

[Viet]

This matter was discussed with the US administration then. The US told the Russians the NATO didn't have planned deep Eastern moves. You are quoting what these people say in Public. Or, may be Gorbachev doesn't like Putin. Not sure. But this agreement should've been put in Ink instead of verbal assurances.



I don't know what "sources" you have, but let me assure you, within ONE year of a ceasefire, Ukraine will officially be in NATO.

this endless discussion is a dead end.
there is only one solution.
the russians must stop the killings, withdraw from Ukraine, giving up the occupation.
Ukraine agrees not to join the NATO in exchange for security guarantees.
that’s the only way out.
otherwise this bloodshed will continue until the last man, last woman, last baby. millions more will die.
or Putin falls out of a window.
then the war stops immediately.

 

[vizier]

Putin's arguments that I've heard in speeches are: Ukraine was going NATO. That will literally bring NATO to Russia's doors. So close that Moscow can be reached through air within 2-3 minutes via supersonic jets and missiles from many places in Ukraine. So he wants depth for Russia's protection.

Apparently, there was an agreement by NATO that they will not expand eastwards beyond countries X,Y. But they did. So Russia needs a buffer zone between itself and NATO. So per Putin, this is between Russia trying to defend itself from future NATO attacks. Ukraine just really happens to be a country next door.

He says he will do ceasefire if Ukraine agrees to a buffer zone and assurity of not joining NATO.

This is in NO means a justification or even a valid argument to attack a sovereign nation. Just thought I'd share what I've learned from Putin's speech to media many times.

Nato wont happen for Ukraine during a possible ceasefire. A country that has active disputes with another cannot be a member of nato. No vetoes necessary. If during the ceasefire zelensky opts for a referandum to ask Ukr people to recognise Russian controlled areas as Russian then that is possible but firstly the answer will be No after a million Ukr casualties and secondly a referandum will take time. The Ukr decision of a referandum to recognise Donbas+Crimea as Russian for nato membership will end ceasefire immediately from the Russian side. So Ukr nato membership possibility argument is no excuse to delay any ceasefire. The land dispute is the cause of non-nato membership that will continue during the ceasefire. Ukraine will not accept currently passing a law on non nato membership but ceasefire-landdispute is sufficient.

if max limit is put to Ukr airplanes for a long time period say 10+ yrs with small increments Ukr cant make further airforce build up to attack Russian controlled areas. It can be included as well as further NPT checks on Ukr nuclear sites for conditions of a possible ceasefire. Russia also needs money to get out of wartime economy. Their frozen assets can be transferred back to Russia to be used for returning to civilian economy and some sanctions can be reduced to transition back to civilian economy. Russia and Ukraine have nothing to lose with a ceasefire agreement. I dont like a criminal like trump getting points for it or even a peace prize or similar but it would be better for everyone which is more important.

After the military conflict is frozen and some time passes new leaderships in Ukr and Russia will opt for a political solution that would gradually remove remaining economic sanctions on Russia completely in exchange of land given gradually back to Ukraine with a Minsk3 type of agreement that would also include Ukr non nato membership law to not to go back to 0 again

 

[j_hungary]

This matter was discussed with the US administration then. The US told the Russians the NATO didn't have planned deep Eastern moves. You are quoting what these people say in Public. Or, may be Gorbachev doesn't like Putin. Not sure. But this agreement should've been put in Ink instead of verbal assurances.



I don't know what "sources" you have, but let me assure you, within ONE year of a ceasefire, Ukraine will officially be in NATO.

According to Gorbachav, there was never a discussion; there is an understanding in spirit, but not an agreement, nor a debate, as per the RBTH article. If there were no discussion at all, either written or verbal, how would there be assurance otherwise??

 

[Soldier35]

Ukrainian servicemen showed footage of an attack on a Ukrainian pickup truck in Pokrovsk by a Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group, the "Center" group of troops. In the video in Pokrovsk, a Ukrainian pickup truck moves along Shevchenko Street, towards Zashchitnikov Ukrainy Street, before reaching the intersection, the pickup truck is ambushed. As a result of the ambush, the Ukrainian driver was wounded and a serviceman in the back of the pickup truck was killed. The reason for the breakthrough of Russian sabotage groups is the lack of soldiers in the Ukrainian brigades in Pokrovsk. Later, the pickup truck was attacked by a drone, as shown at the end of the video.

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[RajaBaja]

Nato wont happen for Ukraine during a possible ceasefire. A country that has active disputes with another cannot be a member of nato. No vetoes necessary. If during the ceasefire zelensky opts for a referandum to ask Ukr people to recognise Russian controlled areas as Russian then that is possible but firstly the answer will be No after a million Ukr casualties and secondly a referandum will take time. The Ukr decision of a referandum to recognise Donbas+Crimea as Russian for nato membership will end ceasefire immediately from the Russian side. So Ukr nato membership possibility argument is no excuse to delay any ceasefire. The land dispute is the cause of non-nato membership that will continue during the ceasefire. Ukraine will not accept currently passing a law on non nato membership but ceasefire-landdispute is sufficient.

if max limit is put to Ukr airplanes for a long time period say 10+ yrs with small increments Ukr cant make further airforce build up to attack Russian controlled areas. It can be included as well as further NPT checks on Ukr nuclear sites for conditions of a possible ceasefire. Russia also needs money to get out of wartime economy. Their frozen assets can be transferred back to Russia to be used for returning to civilian economy and some sanctions can be reduced to transition back to civilian economy. Russia and Ukraine have nothing to lose with a ceasefire agreement. I dont like a criminal like trump getting points for it or even a peace prize or similar but it would be better for everyone which is more important.

After the military conflict is frozen and some time passes new leaderships in Ukr and Russia will opt for a political solution that would gradually remove remaining economic sanctions on Russia completely in exchange of land given gradually back to Ukraine with a Minsk3 type of agreement that would also include Ukr non nato membership law to not to go back to 0 again

Please go through 2024 NATO's meeting minutes they publish. You'll find that there is an agreement on two things: 1: Turkey to recognize a key member and approve expansion and 2: Ukraine post war to become a NATO member. When you research, kindly post those decisions here with date, time and a source and we can discuss further.