Russian troops endorse Trump for president

[KingQamaR]

What would the peace negotiation would be??

Talked about this a thousand times. Both side wants stuff that the other will not give.

I mean do you think Russia would accept Ukraine NATO membership. Or do Ukraine accept dropping NATO claim?

I don't see how each side dropping the term on their specific requirement for peace. Russia did not threaten Ukraine enough for Ukraine to stop fighting and accept Russian term, meanwhile Ukraine did not recover enough ground for Russia to just let go.

I mean, what can peace mean, if both sides are not going to settle with each other term?

You have to deal with reality, that is why.

Unless they can militarily defeat Russia, which they by fact of their size and military strength they can't. They are going to have to give up some of the historically Russian regions of the area in the first place

 

[KingQamaR]

What peace is that?
Putin demands before any ceasefire or negotiation Ukraine must surrender 20 percent of territories, Crimea, no to NATO. If anyone says Putin’s demand is beyond retard then he and she is a warmonger.

Great, if you want peace, you can give me half of your house then we can negotiate who can take the other half of your house.

All wars end in negotiated settlement. Ukraine will be no different. It should not wait until it runs out of men or western money. By this November Trump may be POTUS. Then negotiations will open. Prior to the war commencing Putin had a case to be heard at UN discussion.

 

[j_hungary]

You have to deal with reality, that is why.

Unless they can militarily defeat Russia, which they by fact of their size and military strength they can't. They are going to have to give up some of the historically Russian regions of the area in the first place

The term "Negotiation" does not mean 1 side give and 1 side take, that is not "Negotiation" that is surrendering.

As I said before, Ukraine can probably give up Donbas, but in exchange for what? I mean the Russia is asking the 4 provinces, some of those aren't even occupied yet. So do tell what would Russia give in exchange? A cease fire? Do you honestly believe without a security guarantee, any Ukrainian would think they will be safe from further aggression?

And as I said before, this is not even zero sum, this is negative sum because the Russian is asking for something they do not have in exchange for an empty promise "I swear I will not attack you again". Well, I would say if Ukraine were dumb enough to believe this, they deserved to be rolled over by the Russian.........LOL

 

[Viet]

All wars end in negotiated settlement. Ukraine will be no different. It should not wait until it runs out of men or western money. By this November Trump may be POTUS. Then negotiations will open. Prior to the war commencing Putin had a case to be heard at UN discussion.

All wars end in settlement? What’s about Japan in WW2? There are hundreds of wars with one side winning, the other losing. You live in a bubble.

Betting on Trump?
Man, you can bet on Kim Jung Un.
There is no difference.
The former US chief of general staff called the Chinese because he feared that Trump would nuke China because Trump had a bad day.

 

[KingQamaR]

The term "Negotiation" does not mean 1 side give and 1 side take, that is not "Negotiation" that is surrendering.

As I said before, Ukraine can probably give up Donbas, but in exchange for what? I mean the Russia is asking the 4 provinces, some of those aren't even occupied yet. So do tell what would Russia give in exchange? A cease fire? Do you honestly believe without a security guarantee, any Ukrainian would think they will be safe from further aggression?

And as I said before, this is not even zero sum, this is negative sum because the Russian is asking for something they do not have in exchange for an empty promise "I swear I will not attack you again". Well, I would say if Ukraine were dumb enough to believe this, they deserved to be rolled over by the Russian.........LOL

"Yet" is the key word there. More lives will be lost if they Russians have to take it themselves, which they will take, it is better to end this fighting now than delay the inevitable.

Can’t deny both sides are too idealistic in terms of negotiations, still , one is asking for what is rightfully his, while the other is 2014 leave and then discuss peace terms.

There is never going to be a perfect offer, what has been lost , by everybody, can never be replaced. The ugly reality of war.

 

[KingQamaR]

All wars end in settlement? What’s about Japan in WW2? There are hundreds of wars with one side winning, the other losing. You live in a bubble.

Betting on Trump?
Man, you can bet on Kim Jung Un.
There is no difference.
The former US chief of general staff called the Chinese because he feared that Trump would nuke China because Trump had a bad day.

Trump never claimed to disarm North Korea of nukes, but in fact, he stopped Korea from firing missiles in 2017 over Japan.

 

[j_hungary]

"Yet" is the key word there. More lives will be lost if they Russians have to take it themselves, which they will take, it is better to end this fighting now than delay the inevitable.

Can’t deny both sides are too idealistic in terms of negotiations, still , one is asking for what is rightfully his, while the other is 2014 leave and then discuss peace terms.

There is never going to be a perfect offer, what has been lost , by everybody, can never be replaced. The ugly reality of war.

First of all, you still had not tell me what Russia is offering. Again, they are asking for things that they had NOT taken yet, if it was me, why would I let you have it without you give me something back? Sure, if it was just "I promise I will not attack you" you may as well wait until they actually took those provinces until you relinquish those claim. As I said, if Russia is okay with Ukraine joining NATO, they probably would have given Russia Donbas and Crimea. It most certainly WILL NOT be giving them just with an empty promise.

Second of all, Even if Russia manage to take the entire Donbas (That is a very big if). Then what? Can Russia take the rest of Ukraine? How about half of Ukraine? As long as Ukraine remain, the issue of security guarantee is going to be on the table, I do not see any reason other than Kyiv is threatened by Russia that they will sign off any peace treaty without NATO membership as one of the term, because otherwise would be the same as surrendering, the same as losing or about to lose Kyiv. And that I would say 99% it won't happen.

 

[Menthol]

Zelensky don't have public support. This being the reason he banned elections. There was peace in 2019. Then he ripped it up.

As well as banning opposition parties and politicians.

If I'm not mistaken, Ukraine betrayed Russia twice or third times, I forget the exact number.

 

[KingQamaR]

First of all, you still had not tell me what Russia is offering. Again, they are asking for things that they had NOT taken yet, if it was me, why would I let you have it without you give me something back? Sure, if it was just "I promise I will not attack you" you may as well wait until they actually took those provinces until you relinquish those claim. As I said, if Russia is okay with Ukraine joining NATO, they probably would have given Russia Donbas and Crimea. It most certainly WILL NOT be giving them just with an empty promise.

Second of all, Even if Russia manage to take the entire Donbas (That is a very big if). Then what? Can Russia take the rest of Ukraine? How about half of Ukraine? As long as Ukraine remain, the issue of security guarantee is going to be on the table, I do not see any reason other than Kyiv is threatened by Russia that they will sign off any peace treaty without NATO membership as one of the term, because otherwise would be the same as surrendering, the same as losing or about to lose Kyiv. And that I would say 99% it won't happen.

Russia earlier peace negotiations in the war for us most neutral people would regard the terms offered by Russia to be quite reasonable. It suggests that Russia would withdraw from much of the territory it held at that time, except for Crimea and possibly parts of Donetsk and Luhansk.This was well before the annexation of Kherson and Zaporizhia. The Ukrainians should have accepted,

 

[KingQamaR]

Good night PDF tankers see you all tomorrow.

 

[j_hungary]

Russia earlier peace negotiations in the war for us most neutral people would regard the terms offered by Russia to be quite reasonable. It suggests that Russia would withdraw from much of the territory it held at that time, except for Crimea and possibly parts of Donetsk and Luhansk.This was well before the annexation of Kherson and Zaporizhia. The Ukrainians should have accepted,

That remain unchanged. Again, that was even when Kyiv was threaten and now is not. How would you go back to favor a backward deal when you now are in better position? I mean, they had part of Kherson before, they are south of Kherson City now.

On the other hand, the security assurance issue would still be outstanding, that is most likely the reason why that deal was not accepted in the first place.

 

[KingQamaR]

That remain unchanged. Again, that was even when Kyiv was threaten and now is not. How would you go back to favor a backward deal when you now are in better position? I mean, they had part of Kherson before, they are south of Kherson City now.

On the other hand, the security assurance issue would still be outstanding, that is most likely the reason why that deal was not accepted in the first place.

Ukraine chose war over the Minsk Accords, so unless it wins on the battlefield, it will have to accept whatever Russia offers gives.That just how war works - always has. Complaining doesn't change anything. To the victor the spoils!

 

[j_hungary]

Ukraine chose war over the Minsk Accords, so unless it wins on the battlefield, it will have to accept whatever Russia offers gives.That just how war works - always has. Complaining doesn't change anything. To the victor the spoils!

to the "VICTOR" comes the spoil.

Which the Russians is NOT, and most likely cannot be because that would mean in tactical term, they would have to achieve occupying the 4 oblasts (As this is what they claim), or in strategic term, they would have to capitulate Kyiv. Both aren't going to happen in reality

Again, for what Ukraine should talk to Russia when they haven't even A.) Occupy the 4 province they claim. B.) had not even threaten Kyiv. Again, you want to negotiate, you want to offer something for the other side to negotiate. What you are saying is not negotiation, that's a term for defeat, and Russia had not defeated the Ukrainian yet, and most likely they won't ever be.

Also bear in mind, Ukraine NATO membership is OUTSIDE Russian scope. Russia has no way to decide whether or not Ukraine would get NATO membership, that's for NATO member to decide. Which mean they have no control on this had Ukraine said, "Sod it, we are going to get NATO Membership regardless of talk" If this happen, that is a strategic defeat for Russia. Which means Russia have to put the priority of Ukraine NATO membership request higher than whatever land they occupy. Unless either Russia don't care if Ukraine join NATO, or they can go all the way to Kyiv and stop the process.

If this is the term, then Ukraine would simply say" Come back when you capture the 4 provinces, maybe then we can talk" and at this rate, it would probably be year 2100......

 

[KingQamaR]

Fast forward 2024
- Russia has captured Bakhmut and Avdiivka.
Other smaller towns being captured on weekly basis.

-Western Aid is dwindling
-Internal friction between Zelensky and military commanders.

Maybe this war will end not very long.

The problem with intellectuals is that they intellectualise. As far as west claim that wars don't usually end in victory for one side and defeat for the other is about as wrong as you can be.

And thirdly , for Biden & Zelensky to talk of join NATO.

I mean it is Nato doctrine that you cannot join if there is a territorial dispute I believe. This is the treaty.

 

[Yommie]

I mean it is Nato doctrine that you cannot join if there is a territorial dispute I believe. This is the treaty.

Treaties can be violated at any time. What happened to the Versailles treaty which ended WW1? Yeah. Nobody cares.