Sea Sultan Long-Range MPA | Updates & Discussion

[Ak01]

What are the final equipment selections for sea sultan? Other than structural changes to carry weapons, which radar and EOTS are being employed? Any specific submarine hunting equipment?

WESCAM MX-20D's.

Radar wise, probably the seaspray 7500Ev2, but im not sure. The MX20D's are for sure though. I had seen the export permit.

Then the usual kit, ESM/Acoustic processing stuff. It will be interesting to see if the PN keeps the MAD boom, but i dont think they will

 

[puttputt]

But, how come the Pak Deep State keeps on buying new military gadgets, while funding it's own MIC and waging wars? Is it like they keep two "books"? The "official" balance sheet's "accounts payable" is bloating, while the "hidden" one shows a perfect "zero-to-zero" liability....

It's struggling with bankrolling its programs. Just take a closer look at the overall procurement cycle, and it's very obvious (e.g., ordering only 20 J-10CEs).

Where i think the real shame lies is the PN did not offer this option on the market for other customers. Partner up with paramount and the other oems and offer it as a solution for export. There is very few MPA types available, and this is a very good P8 contender.

cant just these companies ditch PN and go through their own route and offer them to navies similar to us?

Re: Sea Sultan. It's likely that the partnering OEMs are co-funding the program as, IMO, it's unlikely the PN would bankroll the NRE on its own. If not for the OEMs helping out, the PN would've likely bought some Chinese kit.

Pakistan's procurement ethos is basically, "If I can't afford it with cash, I'll use my special in-store credit card from China."

 

[Ak01]

I suspect that will be the plan ie export sales of the design with some kickback to PN, but people will wait for PN to iron out the bugs first and people will see how well the platform performs before getting onto it.

Its a pretty low risk buy because most of the kit will be sourced off the shelf. Not much will be proprietary other than the internal hardware and also fairings. perhaps mission systems etc

It's struggling with bankrolling its programs. Just take a closer look at the overall procurement cycle, and it's very obvious (e.g., ordering only 20 J-10CEs).




Re: Sea Sultan. It's likely that the partnering OEMs are co-funding the program as, IMO, it's unlikely the PN would bankroll the NRE on its own. If not for the OEMs helping out, the PN would've likely bought some Chinese kit.

Pakistan's procurement ethos is basically, "If I can't afford it with cash, I'll use my special in-store credit card from China."

yeah, and to be honest, the PN doesn’t really have any skin in the game either really. I think if it funded the program it would be in a better state, but I am going to be realistic here and assume that PN just went to paramount and said “here’s a plane, do this to it” and left it to them to meet the requirements set out by the PN.

I guess really, no different to the 72’s or the Hangors.

 

[rafale]

WESCAM MX-20D's.

Radar wise, probably the seaspray 7500Ev2, but im not sure. The MX20D's are for sure though. I had seen the export permit.

Then the usual kit, ESM/Acoustic processing stuff. It will be interesting to see if the PN keeps the MAD boom, but i dont think they will

Seapray 7500Ev2 comparable to ERIEYE in air to air mode? I am assuming PN would eventually want it data linked with PAF network centric domain?

 

[rafale]

It's struggling with bankrolling its programs. Just take a closer look at the overall procurement cycle, and it's very obvious (e.g., ordering only 20 J-10CEs).




Re: Sea Sultan. It's likely that the partnering OEMs are co-funding the program as, IMO, it's unlikely the PN would bankroll the NRE on its own. If not for the OEMs helping out, the PN would've likely bought some Chinese kit.

Pakistan's procurement ethos is basically, "If I can't afford it with cash, I'll use my special in-store credit card from China."

Why immediately order more J-10CEs? What would have been different on 7th May versus the Rafales if, say, PAF had more J-10CEs? The results would pretty much have been same....but you would have tied up your funds well in advance for no immediate gain.

It is better to see what your enemy does and then spend the limited funds you have. Now we know that Indians are going for 114 Rafales F4s, which BTW are pretty equal in AA mode to J-10CEs, PAF just needs to decide on time and order more J-10CEs............training and absorbing them would be a breeze since you already have a 20 unit strength squadron fully accustomed to it.

I think PAF is playing it fine, conserving funds for big ticket items that would make or negate Indian advantages. Priority should be fast tracking J-35s and their infrastructure, followed by J-10CEs, HQ19 (possibly for ABM) and if somehow, stars get aligned, get the V kits from uncle Trump.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I think PAF is playing it fine, conserving funds for big ticket items that would make or negate Indian advantages. Priority should be fast tracking J-35s and their infrastructure, followed by J-10CEs, HQ19 (possibly for ABM) and if somehow, stars get aligned, get the V kits from uncle Trump.

PAF would be better off fast tracking the J-35AEs and then trying to sell off the J10CEs once the J-35AEs arrive. It can use the money saved on setting up new depo-level maintenance and support infrastructure for J10CE's on other programmes instread. PAF has the advantage of making that play, and it will help reduce 1 additional type in the fleet, where the future ideal fleet can look like J-35AE, KAAN's, JF17's and what is left of the 16's ..

 

[Aziqbal]

PAF would be better off fast tracking the J-35AEs and then trying to sell off the J10CEs once the J-35AEs arrive. It can use the money saved on setting up new depo-level maintenance and support infrastructure for J10CE's on other programmes instread. PAF has the advantage of making that play, and it will help reduce 1 additional type in the fleet, where the future ideal fleet can look like J-35AE, KAAN's, JF17's and what is left of the 16's ..

personally I love the J10CE and so does PAF I cant see them ever selling it

drop KAAN no need for it and over kill to operate 2 x 5th generation fighters we are not USA

J35AE, J10CE and JF17 is the future

 

[Ali_Baba]

personally I love the J10CE and so does PAF I cant see them ever selling it

drop KAAN no need for it and over kill to operate 2 x 5th generation fighters we are not USA

J35AE, J10CE and JF17 is the future

Kaan will provide the long rage strike capabilities that the PAF is looking for, that it has never had before, ie a heavy. I see no long term value in a fleet of 20 J10CE's when the J-35AE is just around the corner. It makes no financial sense to me to maintain 20 of them, when you can go big on the J-35A's which are much superior in ever respect. Do note, that PAF is only using the J10CE for the AA role, and the J-35AE will do a much much better job of that.

 

[kimjongun]

Seapray 7500Ev2 comparable to ERIEYE in air to air mode? I am assuming PN would eventually want it data linked with PAF network centric domain?

It has 180 degree coverage and is faced towards the sea so i dont think it is gonna be used as an AWACS or integrated into PAFs domain.

 

[Ak01]

It has 180 degree coverage and is faced towards the sea so i dont think it is gonna be used as an AWACS or integrated into PAFs domain.

Seapray 7500Ev2 comparable to ERIEYE in air to air mode? I am assuming PN would eventually want it data linked with PAF network centric domain?

its on a swivel with an a2a mode, one of the reqs for sea sultan was for it to be able to have a secondary awacs role, via a2a radar mode.

 

[Cipher212]

its on a swivel with an a2a mode, one of the reqs for sea sultan was for it to be able to have a secondary awacs role, via a2a radar mode.

Hold on now. You can't just leave us with that little tidbit. How good of an AWACS role are we talking about? Detecting fighter sized targets from hundreds of kilometers away?

Or will it just able to detect with its radar and relay via data-link?

 

[Yasser76]

Why immediately order more J-10CEs? What would have been different on 7th May versus the Rafales if, say, PAF had more J-10CEs? The results would pretty much have been same....but you would have tied up your funds well in advance for no immediate gain.

It is better to see what your enemy does and then spend the limited funds you have. Now we know that Indians are going for 114 Rafales F4s, which BTW are pretty equal in AA mode to J-10CEs, PAF just needs to decide on time and order more J-10CEs............training and absorbing them would be a breeze since you already have a 20 unit strength squadron fully accustomed to it.

I think PAF is playing it fine, conserving funds for big ticket items that would make or negate Indian advantages. Priority should be fast tracking J-35s and their infrastructure, followed by J-10CEs, HQ19 (possibly for ABM) and if somehow, stars get aligned, get the V kits from uncle Trump.

We dont know if Indians are actually going for 114 Rafales, their media comes out with new "purchases" every few weeks, around 10-20% often is accurate, cant plan off the back of that. Even if they did sign the deal we have a 5-6 year wait...

 

[Yasser76]

PAF would be better off fast tracking the J-35AEs and then trying to sell off the J10CEs once the J-35AEs arrive. It can use the money saved on setting up new depo-level maintenance and support infrastructure for J10CE's on other programmes instread. PAF has the advantage of making that play, and it will help reduce 1 additional type in the fleet, where the future ideal fleet can look like J-35AE, KAAN's, JF17's and what is left of the 16's ..

Unsure if there is a market for 20 used J-10CEs tailored specifically for us. You are right a 20 aircraft fleet is simply not worth is though. Bangladesh would be a perfect customer, but we want to flog them JF-17C

 

[Ak01]

Hold on now. You can't just leave us with that little tidbit. How good of an AWACS role are we talking about? Detecting fighter sized targets from hundreds of kilometers away?

Or will it just able to detect with its radar and relay via data-link?

maybe. im not sure, data isnt published on the a2a capability of the 7500ev2, but its a very powerful radar.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Unsure if there is a market for 20 used J-10CEs tailored specifically for us. You are right a 20 aircraft fleet is simply not worth is though. Bangladesh would be a perfect customer, but we want to flog them JF-17C

Were they customised ? Given the compressed procurement timeline I don’t think they were, but instead a standard export variant with comms changes etc?