Sea Sultan Long-Range MPA | Updates & Discussion

[Colt_Six_Nine]

But we're not going to to use those for commercial use. Those spares will be treated as "military components"

PN didn't buy new jets from Embraer, they likely wouldn't be new spares from Embraer. 3rd party, used spares or intermediaries can be used.

And why would Embraer have an issue with PN's military use. Embraer is not Lockheed Martin. They want their jets and spares to sell. This only improves the appeal for their aircraft. PN is not a blacklisted organization.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I have the exact information for the induction delay but would like to reserve my comments for now based on too many prying eyes here. And as far as intuition is concerned, that has never let me down.

And handing over the first PN Lineage 1000 VVIP to the PAF for AF One transport is not a good sign as well. This aircraft was to be used as a trainer for future pilots.

The platform is 2 a penny, and can have no bearing on the success of the platform given the manufacturing times of the conversion into the Sea Sultan itself. Backfilling the VIP will be easy.

Pakistan has purchased a number f platforms from Embraer and has a working relationship with them already.

As for the "trust me bro" information - well.

Maybe the project is indeed delayed but not for the reasons you alluded to.

 

[Dreamer]

The platform is 2 a penny, and can have nt.o bearing on the success of the platform given the manufacturing times of the conversion into the Sea Sultan itself. Backfilling the VIP will be easy.

Pakistan has purchased a number f platforms from Embraer and has a working relationship with them already.

As for the "trust me bro" information - well.

Maybe the project is indeed delayed but not for the reasons you alluded to.

@Par 5 's information has been correct in the past. He may or may not have 100% correct information and part of it might be intuition as he himself said but I wouldn't dismiss it outright.

 

[hasssanali8998]

"trust me bro

him and @Ak01 are the only ones that you should trust with information on SS , i would not ignore his opinions or intuitions

And why would Embraer have an issue with PN's military use.

Because we didn't involve them in SS and involved others (Paramount and Leonardo), and also the fact that they offer a similar solution based on the E190, so to them, you are cutting them out and using their aircraft to build a similar platform to what they offer with their competitors. I would be mad too.

Also, the fact that they have been cozying up to the Indian markets. Right now, PN and Embraer have a bad relationship.

 

[hasssanali8998]

I don't think PN purchased these aircraft directly from Embraer, rather from the used market. If that's the case and the Lineage 1000 takes E190's parts, I don't see why Embraer would have an issue. Pakistan's not a blacklisted country for buying commercial aviation spare parts.

pn purchased the first from the open market , rest were purchased by leanardo ( they will earn a lot from PN by doing this btw )

also no , u cant buy from the commercial market , because ss is not commercial its a miliatry project so that comes with its own red tape and paper work

u also cant buy from boneyards as lineage 1000 is new( which is what iran air does ) , andparts have crazy backlogs . so pn is fuked and eventually has to make a deal with embraer

 

[Colt_Six_Nine]

him and @Ak01 are the only ones that you should trust with information on SS , i would not ignore his opinions or intuitions

Because we didn't involve them in SS and involved others (Paramount and Leonardo), and also the fact that they offer a similar solution based on the E190, so to them, you are cutting them out and using their aircraft to build a similar platform to what they offer with their competitors. I would be mad too.

Also, the fact that they have been cozying up to the Indian markets. Right now, PN and Embraer have a bad relationship.

While I agree with everything you say, you can't ignore that the E-Jet (1st gen) family has 1,700+ units produced and used worldwide.
These may not be 737 or A320 numbers, but these are significant numbers nonetheless.
If Iran can use the secondary market to get widebodies into its airlines despite the overwhelming sanctions, I'm sure PN has a greater chance of getting spares for a fairly common airframe.

Edit: E-Jet E1 / Lineage aren't new. They're out of production already (replaced by E2) and dozens are already permanently retired.

 

[hasssanali8998]

If Iran can use the secondary market to get widebodies into its airlines despite the overwhelming sanctions,

yes but SS is a miltary project , first thing they ask when u try to buy parts is what is it for ,and retailers can get blacklisted for selling you parts illegally , hell even air frames can get blacklisted and then no one will sell you anything after u tell them the serials.


it works for iran because its commerical and so the regulations arent that strict . u cant compare the two situations

what i am trying to say is PN HAS to make a deal , no other way around it .

 

[Salza]

what i am trying to say is PN HAS to make a deal , no other way around it .

The delay is obvious to everyone and reasons can be many things which Par has suggested some. Question is, why PN is still not making the deal with the plane manufacturer, what's the hold on our side still? I am sure PN knows about this likely scenario while selecting this plane. Converting 5-6 such planes into LRMPA is a big project and possibly spanning into multiple decades the time the planes will be set to retire.

 

[Par 5]

The delay is obvious to everyone and reasons can be many things which Par has suggested some. Question is, why PN is still not making the deal with the plane manufacturer, what's the hold on our side still? I am sure PN knows about this likely scenario while selecting this plane. Converting 5-6 such planes into LRMPA is a big project and possibly spanning into multiple decades the time the planes are set to retire.

Because Embraer does not want PN to develop an LRMPA independently as it has its own plans to convert the Lineage Platform into an LRMPA. If it openly assists PN, it will tend to lose its own programs reputation and profits thereof. There is a huge difference in price of a Brazilian Embraer made LRMPA from a brand-new platform vs. cheaply developed MPA by PN in collaboration with Leonardo and Paramount out of used commercial platforms from the open market

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

Out of the box approach:

If the Chinese can help then, perhaps COMAC CBJ (C909 Business Jet / ARJ 21 ) is the nearest alternative currently available.

New aircraft, in production, similar dimensions but a little less cabin space, cheaper price for a new plane and backed by COMAC, which is a state owned enterprise.

Slight alteration is needed to add the extra fuel tanks to increase the range.

This could / would be a unique example of a Chinese jet fitted with western systems as an LRMPA.

200 + units have been built so far.
1000s more to go.

They both rely on General Electric’s CF34 turbofan engine family:
1. The Lineage 1000E utilizes two GE CF34-10E engines.
2. The COMAC CBJ utilizes two GE CF34-10A engines.

Even if a deal is reached with Embraer, don't expect it to be kind to you specially when huge financial gains are to be made in India, which could put pressure on Embraer to not cooperate with Pakistan.

Similar to how the French behaved in the midlife / upgradation of Agousta subs due to Indian influence.

 

[Bratva]

Dude earlier claimed there may be spare issue on Linage as very few of them in service, Bit like saying there may be spares issue for SAAB 2000 as very few Erieyes in service

Thing is essentially a E190

SAAB-2000 is classified as a military aircraft and saab has approved spare-parts and maintenance for this military aircraft . Even the SAAB PAF repaired, majority of spare-parts came from Sweden, isnt it?

Par5 when he says Sea-Sultan is facing spare part issue. It is due to a screw up of PN, which has taken a commercial airplane and made it into military aircraft without approval of Embrarer. God-forbid if bird strike happens, who is going to repair the plane and certify it's airworthiness?

 

[White Privilege]

SAAB-2000 is classified as a military aircraft and saab has approved spare-parts and maintenance for this military aircraft . Even the SAAB PAF repaired, majority of spare-parts came from Sweden, isnt it?

Par5 when he says Sea-Sultan is facing spare part issue. It is due to a screw up of PN, which has taken a commercial airplane and made it into military aircraft without approval of Embrarer. God-forbid if bird strike happens, who is going to repair the plane and certify it's airworthiness?

So what can be done now, can Embrear now approve it and get on board?? Will it not approve the already under conversion platforms and only the ones in pipeline?? Also can western subsystems acquisition/integration be an issue in the future given the geopolitical uncertainties?? Is it better to opt for Chinese/Turkish sub systems now??

 

[Salza]

SAAB-2000 is classified as a military aircraft and saab has approved spare-parts and maintenance for this military aircraft . Even the SAAB PAF repaired, majority of spare-parts came from Sweden, isnt it?

Par5 when he says Sea-Sultan is facing spare part issue. It is due to a screw up of PN, which has taken a commercial airplane and made it into military aircraft without approval of Embrarer. God-forbid if bird strike happens, who is going to repair the plane and certify it's airworthiness?

Well we can now have an expensive out of box contract with Embrarer if they agrees where Embrarer to get decent money then usual for their hardware support. This is the only way forward.

 

[Par 5]

Well we can now have an expensive out of box contract with Embrarer if they agrees where Embrarer to get decent money then usual for their hardware support. This is the only way forward.

Money that we do not have at the moment

 

[Yasser76]

SAAB-2000 is classified as a military aircraft and saab has approved spare-parts and maintenance for this military aircraft . Even the SAAB PAF repaired, majority of spare-parts came from Sweden, isnt it?

Par5 when he says Sea-Sultan is facing spare part issue. It is due to a screw up of PN, which has taken a commercial airplane and made it into military aircraft without approval of Embrarer. God-forbid if bird strike happens, who is going to repair the plane and certify it's airworthiness?

Nope, that is not what he orginally said, he said there was a limited number of Linage aircraft, which makes no sense when the plane is essentially an E190

Seems like we just have a bunch of wannabes pretending they have insider info and a circle jerk fan club.

If this info was genuine, then revealing it on an open forum helps Pakistan's enemies. Someone who claims they constantly have access to insider info and reveals some on here is not a real insider. That is someone desperate for kudos on the forum and likes.