SMASH SLBM Testing - Nov 2025

[Waz]

I do wonder how the PN plans to deploy SMASH onboard ships though.

at 2.6 tons a missile thats no joke... Either the PN intends on giving up depth and carrying 1/2 missiles, or the decks are alot stronger than i initially thought (im guessing its the former)

The F22P was designed to carry c802's, a 700kg missile. Heck, even our 054A's wont carry a full missile loadout and im pretty sure thats simply because the deck cant support it.

How the PN intends to fit 10 tons of missile on an area that was designed to fit lighter ashm's is beyond me.

On top of that, every navy that deployed AShBM's onboard ships walked that decision back, i sincerely hope PN does too, as wide area AAW capabilities improve, our ships need longer, smarter sticks, deploy these on subs and shore though, sure.

I do think this program is more of a precursor to the pn eventually designing its own SLBM's, its a fact that the PN will acquire some form of BM sub some day, getting NRDI some developmental experience on ballistics isnt a bad idea

I'm glad someone posted what I was thinking yesterday.
I do hope and I'm optimistic that we will see the advent of a SLBM deterrent.

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

We can debate all day about how effective Israeli ADS is, and as I mentioned no ADS of 100% effective, but what is clear they stopped MOST incoming missiles. With regard to IN vessels, that's another question, but clearly PN vessels having at most 2 SMASH may not be enough to defeat IN defences, which is what the original topic was.

This number will not be enough
Only way is using more numbers via land launchers
Also barak did nothing ij Israel - Iran conflict
And it's is not designed for ballistic missiles defense nor is Indian navy

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

Nowadays, classifying missiles based on their propulsion systems is no longer very meaningful, as missiles with combined propulsion systems are becoming increasingly popular.

The DF-100 missile, for example, first uses a rocket engine to launch the missile to a high altitude and achieve a high speed. Then, it discards the rocket engine and activates a ramjet engine to enter cruise mode...

Current air-breathing hypersonic cruise missiles also employ this combined propulsion scheme.

Furthermore, some cruise missiles, in order to achieve higher terminal attack speeds, activate a small rocket engine at the end of their flight to increase the speed of the warhead, thereby generating greater impact kinetic energy.


Hey. Have you ever seen or heard of any country's coast guard vessels using stealth design and equipped with VLS?

The PLA Navy operates many experimental warships. These warships are primarily operated by the PLA Navy's internal research and development and testing institutions. They are part of the PLA Navy's official organizational structure.
But, there is currently no official information available about this new warship. What is certain, however, is that it is a project of the PLA Navy.

Try to read
All plan and coast guard ships have tenders and are known during construction to be plan or coast guard destined ships
This is what i wrote
Also, Chinese shipyard operate experimental ships not plan
Shipyards are all government owned

 

[FuturePAF]

Firstly both of you are wrong
2000 to is never a blue water combat ships
It can't take any such heavy missiles
Also it is just experimental Corvette design with new proposed propulsion testing, stealth testing and their are many other such experimental ships like 15k to drone carrier
Secondly, smash is anti ship missiles but in class of Turkish normal Typhoon block 1 ballistic missile that has smaller dimensions still 800 km range and very large warhead at higher speed
Pakistan navy needs to learn from turkey Iran china, newer propellent, lighter but still cost efficient structure material with optimized warhead and push it's range to 800 km for ship based version
Secondly, use wider booster meter longer for land based version, on truck based two missiles launcher can achieve 1000 km range with 450kg plus warhead easily
These two should be developed and fielded in next two years and mass produced
Will keep Indian navy far away

As for people quoting nirbhay again and again
Nirbhay is land attack cruise missile
It's not anti ship
And it will be mostly used Indian land based forces
Short range medium range systems and land based ciws version of type 1130 smaller radars in number are needed for it

And lastly about PRSM, Pakistan should learn from Iran, Iran has used ballistic missiles with reduced warhead and far higher range
PRSM is same, it has 90 kg warhead only against 180 to 280 kg of ATCAMS but it has reached 566 km in testing possibly able to reach 600 km already and MAKO missiles is it's air launched version for all jets of USAF with 500 to 800 km range

The Fatah two has 480 kg warhead
It should be developed into one new variation and one new missiles
Variation being smaller 200 kg warhead version in same two stage configuration that increase range from 450km to 800-1000 km
Also use it and make new missiles, 430 mm dimater, 4.4 m length, 800 kg weight (prsm is 600kg)
Warhead of 150 kg, 500-600 km range land based 800 km range air based version, compatible with 4 per truck on fattah launcher, 2 per jet on jf17, j10c and even in internal bay of j35 as it's dimensions are within f35 internal missiles
Single stage near hypersonic speed
Land, air and navy submarine version (dimensions fit just add 2.5 m second stage booster of same dimater as yj18 in yuan class is also 7 meter long)
And this missile will be new ij dimensions but not something new, usa army has prsm, local American firms making mako, Castillio low cost prsm version, turkey made 300 er air launched missile, Israel's makes air Lora, and newer 500 km range missiles

I suspect the length and diameter of the Smash are under 7 meters and 0.85 meters so they can fit in a Chinese UVLS. Hopefully the goal is to reach a 1000 km range, so it can be a potential universal missile for the new rocket force of Pakistan. Keeping the Indian navy as far from Karachi will allow the other services to focus on their missions and not focus on the naval axis.

As for a 2000 ton ship being blue water, that has to do with the shape of the hull. Will endurance be limited, sure, and will sensors be limited, yes again, but with Cooperative engagement capability and optimizing for an endurance that allows the ships to operate during a few weeks of high tensions, in the Northern Arabian Sea, it likely they should not need refueling for the duration of the mission.

Sure the ship is experiential but it is an indication of things to come. China doesn’t build ships unless it plans to have something near about at least on offer for the export market.

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

Against SMASH-type targets? Somehow I doubt that.

Thaad arrow 2 and 3 were used against ballistic missiles all of which have no current or future deployment in IN so irrelevant to our case

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

And you're an expert on Chinese weapon naming convention are you? This coming from someone who believes the houtis shot down a US navy F18 using an anti ship ballistic missiles! Lol What a clown.

Houthis hit within 100 meters of CVN
(Limited targeting capabilities no satellite no AWACS mpa) great capabilities for them
Also to avoid hits CVN did sharp turns
Fighter fell off
Also houthis had capabilities to know approximate location and fire anti ship BM in time of operation causing cancelled operation even friendly f18 downed then cancel of whole operation running American navy

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Do you have proof that S400 was NOT hit?

I know for a fact it was hit because when Modi visited the air base, they never showed the 96L6E "Cheese Board" radar, which Pakistan air force specifically named as the target that was hit -- so the Indians never showed it, not even once. Instead, Modi got the tour of the 55K6E mobile command and control (C2) vehicle, and they put the launcher vehicle behind him as a propaganda prop to fool the Indian public.

At the end of the day, S-400 failed to save their a$$. The rest - be its radrars got destroyed or jammed - are details....

Their billions of $s have enriched Russia though....

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

It is not a case of navy policy - its a case of physics.


You are repeating the same exact thing without looking at the actual crux of it.

No one is arguing the awesome firepower IN has - but at the same time you missed the part where I stated that PN already has a fairly decent A2/AD element in place.

Now they are looking to reinforce it with a ballistic element.

However, 1970s or 2070s - physics is physics and limitations still apply.

Ships move and maneuver. Even at a modest 25 knots, a ship travels ~46 km in an hour. A 1000 km subsonic cruise missile might take well over an hour to reach its target; even a supersonic missile will take many tens of minutes at extreme range. Any initial targeting cue that is not continuously updated becomes stale quickly, and the missile may end up searching a large area full of decoys, chaff, and clutter.

Long range anti‑ship or counter air missiles are only useful if they are embedded in a very high‑quality “kill web”. This means wide‑area ISR, high‑bandwidth networking, and robust fire‑control grade tracks maintained over time. U.S. work on future 1000 mile counter air missiles explicitly says these weapons are useless without a deeply networked, resilient sensor and comms architecture.

Does india have that throughout your EEZ? Do you?
“300 km from Indian Navy assets” is not magically “outside the SAM envelope.” - slow ASW or AEW assets within this space invites severe risk to these assets. What is the loitering time for a J-10C(as if your 20 are available everywhere everytime) to maintain a CAP over your ships some 100km off shore? Please consider and advise before asking the world of what is barely 8% of your combat fleet.

So what about satellites ? Well even in the most advanced Western concepts, getting “targeting‑grade” tracks for long‑range missiles from space requires:

• Large constellations of LEO/MEO sensors for near‑continuous coverage.
• High‑speed data fusion and dissemination (the “tracking layer” and BMC3 functions) to turn raw data into 3D tracks suitable for weapons control.
• Latency and update rate matter. A satellite in a high orbit may only briefly see a given area with sufficient geometry for precise track, and then must hand off to others. Maintaining continuous, high‑fidelity tracking on a maneuvering naval force over the ocean is a non‑trivial enterprise and currently at the cutting edge of U.S. and allied R&D, not a solved commodity service from maxar.

You have two satellites which can be considered quasi useful for generating static imagery of ships in ideal weather conditions.

So while your wishlist is backed with some frustration - none of it is grounded in reality for both sides and in the case of Pakistan little funds to support such an effort.

Lets be realistic and consider your position as a Pakistani asking fellow Pakistanis to make some unrealistic decisions which even if they had funds would struggle to implement effectively.

Indian navy brahmos is dual capable
Their target is always Karachi land targets that they can fire easily
Pakistani navy objective is to keep them out of reach of Karachi
Also 1000 km smash version is being discussed here
Guided via AWACS or MPAs or drones
Smash is on land
Map AWACS or fighter or drone is forward deployed

How do you think AWACS guided j10c launched pl 15 to 100 km away on very small and very fast Rafael while being far ahwa from even j10c to be safe from s400 or IAF?

Smash on shore
Arial assets in open sea 300 km away from in destroyers can guide smash more easily them AWACS did with pl15

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

Actually there is no comparison in any aspect of life ....their rich cultural values , education system, governance ...all are ahead of not only Pakistan but also many neighboring countries.

They are carrying the legacy of oldest civilization on earth....

Carrying by education system that is followed by skilled labour development and r and d base development

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

Quwa - CM400AKG - QBM

"Rather than sea-skimming, CASIC stated that the CM-400AKG relies on high-altitude launch, which CASIC claims lends to “higher aircraft survivability”.[6] According to IHS Jane’s, the CM-400AKG “climbs to a high altitude and terminates with a high-speed drive on the target.”[7] In effect, it appears that the CM-400AKG operates with an arc, thus owing to its quasi-ballistic missile ties. Besides its flight trajectory, the CM-400AKG reportedly has a range of 180-250 km, using a terminal-stage seeker – optional between imaging infrared (IIR) and active radar-homing (ARH)"

Can we please get over the CM/BM debate and get back to SMASH?

Qausi ballistic missiles are not just one having boost stage them going down with gravity to generate speed
They have longer burning motors
And can have low flight profile in end phase like cruise missile but higher then cruise missiles

This is what's happening in video
Also American had such missiles ij 1970s of 150 km range flying with rocket motor burning while traveling at low altitude then pooping up at last phase
I don't remember it's name but I saw same kind of video for that but I daytime and in hill areas

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Exactly they would face barrage of Brahmos. India is already testing 800 KM version of Brahmos and soon that would be inducted plus 1500 KM Nirbhay is also ready. Their space program is good and eventually they would be able to use theri satellites to guide their very long range missiles to chase and hit a fast moving ship as well. Plus land targets. What is our plan of action I seriously can't understand. No one will let you this close that you can fire a 350 KM to 450 KM range missile.

IMO the PN's plan is like that of the PAF. Generate a "kill web" via all resources - at sea, air land, space etc. - available. And, then go for the kill. Even a single hit on a single platform of theirs would do the trick. They'll "ground" the IN like the way they did with the IAF....

From the Bharat's Fitret (read delusion) related POV:

Tactical loss -> operational confusion -> strategic hallucination -> political paralysis

For the Ehl-i Dunya, death = defeat

For the Ehl-i Iman, death = honorable discharge from the active duty with all honors, rights, and privileges appertaining thereunto

 

[Qadeer chaudary]

I'm glad someone posted what I was thinking yesterday.
I do hope and I'm optimistic that we will see the advent of a SLBM deterrent.

Slbm need vls subs
Onky when yuan deliver in 2029 can we take more 6-7 years for slbm equiped diesel Sub
Or 10 years at least further for slbm equiped ssbn

 

[hnn]

Qausi ballistic missiles are not just one having boost stage them going down with gravity to generate speed
They have longer burning motors
And can have low flight profile in end phase like cruise missile but higher then cruise missiles

This is what's happening in video
Also American had such missiles ij 1970s of 150 km range flying with rocket motor burning while traveling at low altitude then pooping up at last phase
I don't remember it's name but I saw same kind of video for that but I daytime and in hill areas

I never said QBM only has Boost Stage Propulsion. That's the difference b/w BM and CM which I mentioned in an earlier post.

This post is an exact quoted excerpt from Quwa which also classified CM-400AKG as QBM (and also mentions its high and arced flight path). I shared this because a member needed it.

True, QBM can fly flatter, that's how our F1 and F2 work as well, relying on speed and low altitude to avoid radar detection as much as possible. However QBMs, even at their flattest trajectories don't fly 10m above the ground. In the video, the vector is flying at an altitude that is more akin to CM than QBM.

Also, I have already explained why it is more likely to be BrahMos than CM-400 AKG based on a chain of events surrounding the video (explained in a previous post) in addition to what is generally known about missiles - I'm not claiming to be certain a 100% - I could always be wrong but if you think the video is of a CM-400AKG targeted at S400 then I'm open to hear the explanation you have for it.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Thaad arrow 2 and 3 were used against ballistic missiles all of which have no current or future deployment in IN so irrelevant to our case

And Azerbaijan does?

 

[hussain0216]

Houthis hit within 100 meters of CVN
(Limited targeting capabilities no satellite no AWACS mpa) great capabilities for them
Also to avoid hits CVN did sharp turns
Fighter fell off
Also houthis had capabilities to know approximate location and fire anti ship BM in time of operation causing cancelled operation even friendly f18 downed then cancel of whole operation running American navy

The U.S ended anti-houthi action quite abruptly, the main reason was, it was only a matter of time before the houthis sunk a major U.S asset

As it was their were multiple close calls for the U.S navy and as you said they had to do difficult sharp turns/manoeuvring to avoid being hit and lost at least two fighter jets, with one just falling off the side

The Houthis major problem was the inability to sustain a attack with multiple assets at once

If we can create a 1000km shore based anti ship ballistic or hypersonic option and back it up with multiple drone and cruise missile options to target ships or carrier groups in a single attack, then it would be suicide for any navy to come within range of the Pakistani coast

India may still have the advantage with a larger navy, but they would struggle to enforce any blockade and the risk to their navy would be enormous and if they actually lost a ship, it would be humiliating