Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

[ety]

Your understanding of the An Lushan Rebellion is too superficial. It was not a national rebellion.

The rebel army is not Turkic, it is just that the leader of the rebel army, An Lushan, has half Turkic ancestry (his mother is a Turkic). In fact, there are more Han Chinese officers in the rebel army than in the Tang government army, and the soldiers are mainly Han Chinese troops. There were more non Han military officers in the Tang Dynasty government army.

The essence of this war is the struggle for interests and rights between the nobles west of the Taihang Mountains and the nobles east of the Taihang Mountains, as well as the accumulated hatred between them for hundreds of years.

Chinese historical records attribute the cause of this war to Turkic generals, which is a common form of racial discrimination. Just like the US government pushing the issue onto immigrants, the Han Chinese government in China, which has held public opinion and power for thousands of years, will never acknowledge that it is a war caused by internal interests of the Han Chinese. In fact, at least half of the generals who eliminated the rebels and saved the Tang Dynasty were not Han Chinese.

安史叛军的大部分成员是胡人,汉化胡人和胡化汉人 ？ Google AI Answer

这是一个非常精准且切中安史之乱核心特质的论断。安史叛军的兵源和将领构成，绝非简单的“胡汉对立”，而是一个高度融合、身份错综复杂的军事利益集团。

我们可以将这三类核心成员进行具体拆解：

1. 纯胡人（东北及内亚边疆少数民族）
叛军的基础核心武力，绝大多数是未完全汉化的边疆内附民族。

• 主要族群：突厥、同罗、契丹、奚、昭武九姓（粟特人）以及室韦等。
• 核心代表：安禄山（粟特与突厥混血）、史思明（突厥化的粟特人）。
• 叛军主力：安禄山麾下的“曳落河”（突厥语“壮士”，由同罗、奚、契丹等精锐骑兵组成，约数万人）和“同罗翻头兵”，是叛军最强悍的矛头。

2. 汉化胡人（融入唐朝体制的胡族后裔）
这些人生于大唐、长于大唐，深谙唐朝的政治与军事运作，但保留了胡人的尚武军风。

• 文化特征：他们能说汉语、懂唐朝官制，甚至起汉名、娶汉妻，但其宗族和军事纽带仍带有浓厚的草原色彩。
• 核心代表：
  • 白孝德（虽为安西胡人，但代表了当时胡人融入唐军的普遍状态）。
  • 叛军中的大量中高级胡将，他们追求的是在唐朝体制内获得更高的封爵和节度使权力，而非推翻汉文化。

3. 胡化汉人（长期卫戍边疆的汉族将士）
这是叛军中极易被忽略、但数量庞大的中坚力量。由于唐朝实行“蕃卫”和长期边镇屯田，幽州、营州等地的汉人长期与胡人混居，生活习俗和精神面貌已高度胡化。

• 文化特征：他们“不识诗书，唯习弓马”，政治认同依附于军阀（如安禄山）而非远在长安的唐廷。
• 核心代表：
  • 张通儒、高尚、严庄：安禄山身边的核心汉人谋士。
  • 田承嗣、李怀仙：叛军的重要将领（后成为河朔三镇的藩镇割据者）。这些人虽是汉人，但行事作风、军事思维与胡人无异。

All these members are basically not real Chinese in normal sense. Overwhelming number of rebel army comes from these groups.

 

[MMM-E]

When you regard the former rulers of the Turkic peoples—such as the Xiongnu, Xianbei, and Rouran—as your ancestors, the Chinese can only find it shocking and absurd. In traditional Chinese values, this is referred to as “认贼作父,” which means treating one’s enemy as one’s father. This is the most shameful and unacceptable act.

We dont care about others what they thinks about us

Not only the Turks but also Hungarians ( Magyars ) regard the former rules of the Turkic People

ex Hungarian prime Minister VICTOR ORBAN said that We are Kipchak Turks and descendants of ATILLA The HUN



btw We Turks only consider the Huns ( Xiongnu ) as our ancestors

Xianbei and Rouran were close to the Mongols

 

[MH.Yang]

Turks actively fought in the Battle of Talas and ultimately decided its outcome. In this historic clash in 751 AD, the Karluk Turks joined forces with the Abbasid Caliphate to defeat the Chinese Tang Dynasty

it was Turkic dynasties that established long-term Empires
The Turks were responsible for the massive, institutional and widespread expansion of Islam across India, Pakistan and Bangladesh


The Battle of Talas shattered China's political and military influence in Central Asia for a full 1.000 years.

In 751 AD, the army of Ge Luolu betrayed the Tang Dynasty, leading to its defeat in the Battle of Hengluo. From 752 AD to 753 AD, Tang Dynasty general Feng Changqing led 20000 troops to destroy the rebellious Geluolu tribe, which became a historical term and a ruin after massacre. The Turkic Empire you imagined did not appear in Central Asia, which was still the pasture of the Arab Empire and the Tang Empire.

 

[MH.Yang]

We dont care about others what they thinks about us

Not only the Turks but also Hungarians ( Magyars ) regard the former rules of the Turkic People

ex Hungarian prime Minister VICTOR ORBAN said that We are Kipchak Turks and descendants of ATILLA The HUN

View attachment 211658

btw We Turks only consider the Huns ( Xiongnu ) as our ancestors

Xianbei and Rouran were close to the Mongols

You are Islamized Greeks.

 

[MH.Yang]

安史叛军的大部分成员是胡人,汉化胡人和胡化汉人 ？ Google AI Answer

这是一个非常精准且切中安史之乱核心特质的论断。安史叛军的兵源和将领构成，绝非简单的“胡汉对立”，而是一个高度融合、身份错综复杂的军事利益集团。

我们可以将这三类核心成员进行具体拆解：

1. 纯胡人（东北及内亚边疆少数民族）
叛军的基础核心武力，绝大多数是未完全汉化的边疆内附民族。

• 主要族群：突厥、同罗、契丹、奚、昭武九姓（粟特人）以及室韦等。
• 核心代表：安禄山（粟特与突厥混血）、史思明（突厥化的粟特人）。
• 叛军主力：安禄山麾下的“曳落河”（突厥语“壮士”，由同罗、奚、契丹等精锐骑兵组成，约数万人）和“同罗翻头兵”，是叛军最强悍的矛头。

2. 汉化胡人（融入唐朝体制的胡族后裔）
这些人生于大唐、长于大唐，深谙唐朝的政治与军事运作，但保留了胡人的尚武军风。

• 文化特征：他们能说汉语、懂唐朝官制，甚至起汉名、娶汉妻，但其宗族和军事纽带仍带有浓厚的草原色彩。
• 核心代表：
  • 白孝德（虽为安西胡人，但代表了当时胡人融入唐军的普遍状态）。
  • 叛军中的大量中高级胡将，他们追求的是在唐朝体制内获得更高的封爵和节度使权力，而非推翻汉文化。

3. 胡化汉人（长期卫戍边疆的汉族将士）
这是叛军中极易被忽略、但数量庞大的中坚力量。由于唐朝实行“蕃卫”和长期边镇屯田，幽州、营州等地的汉人长期与胡人混居，生活习俗和精神面貌已高度胡化。

• 文化特征：他们“不识诗书，唯习弓马”，政治认同依附于军阀（如安禄山）而非远在长安的唐廷。
• 核心代表：
  • 张通儒、高尚、严庄：安禄山身边的核心汉人谋士。
  • 田承嗣、李怀仙：叛军的重要将领（后成为河朔三镇的藩镇割据者）。这些人虽是汉人，但行事作风、军事思维与胡人无异。

All these members are basically not real Chinese in normal sense. Overwhelming number of rebel army comes from these groups.

To be fair, both sides of the An Lushan Rebellion had a large number of senior Han and non Han generals, and both had reasons for war that could be explained by Confucianism. Whoever loses is the rebel, whoever is the alien. An Lushan lost, so he is a betrayed alien. Li Guangbi, Ge Shuhan, Gao Xianzhi and other foreign generals won, so they are the Sinicized Hu people. Do you really think it was a national war?

 

[MMM-E]

In 751 AD, the army of Ge Luolu betrayed the Tang Dynasty, leading to its defeat in the Battle of Hengluo. From 752 AD to 753 AD, Tang Dynasty general Feng Changqing led 20000 troops to destroy the rebellious Geluolu tribe, which became a historical term and a ruin after massacre. The Turkic Empire you imagined did not appear in Central Asia, which was still the pasture of the Arab Empire and the Tang Empire.

Karluk Turks did the right thing and prevented China from entering Central Asia, which is the true Turkic homeland

The Battle of Talas in 751 AD shattered China's political and military influence in Asia for a full 1.000 years


If the Turks had not stopped the Chinese at the Battle of Talas, the Chinese armies would have had a completely open path, and one of the first strategic regions they would have targeted would certainly have been the Indian subcontinent (India/Pakistan region)

In this vast geographical area, Chinese culture and beliefs (Buddhism, Confucianism) would definitely dominate central Asia and the Indian subcontinent

 

[MMM-E]

You are Islamized Greeks.

We are TURKS who carry R1a and R1b from PM-45 ( ptoto Turkic Peoples ) and from the K2b as like most of the Turkic Peoples


of course there are millions of Kurds , Arabs , Albanians , Georgians , Circassians , Bosniaks , etc in Turkiye

because Turkiye is the heir to the Ottoman Empire, and millions of Muslims fleeing Christian persecution from the Balkans and the Caucasus have come to Anatolia between 1821 and 1980s

 

[ety]

To be fair, both sides of the An Lushan Rebellion had a large number of senior Han and non Han generals, and both had reasons for war that could be explained by Confucianism. Whoever loses is the rebel, whoever is the alien. An Lushan lost, so he is a betrayed alien. Li Guangbi, Ge Shuhan, Gao Xianzhi and other foreign generals won, so they are the Sinicized Hu people. Do you really think it was a national war?

It was basically a rebellion war to overthrow Tang dynasty led by and the core rebel army were basically not real Chinese. The government side army has its Chinese emperor at the top, so with some non Han Chinese generals.

 

[MH.Yang]

Karluk Turks did the right thing and prevented China from entering Central Asia, which is the true Turkic homeland

The Battle of Talas in 751 AD shattered China's political and military influence in Asia for a full 1.000 years


If the Turks had not stopped the Chinese at the Battle of Talas, the Chinese armies would have had a completely open path, and one of the first strategic regions they would have targeted would certainly have been the Indian subcontinent (India/Pakistan region)

In this vast geographical area, Chinese culture and beliefs (Buddhism, Confucianism) would definitely dominate central Asia and the Indian subcontinent

Your answer this time is indeed true. The defeat of Hengros allowed the Tang government to see the strength of the Arab Empire, and it believed that competing with the Arab Empire for Central Asia was an uneconomical strategic act. This led to the gradual withdrawal of Chinese power from Central Asia.

But it is absurd to think that the Gelulu people who betrayed the Tang Dynasty could survive and even rule Central Asia. The Tang Dynasty, a super empire, could abandon Central Asia, but it would definitely destroy traitors. The Arab Empire would not engage in a real decisive battle with the Tang Dynasty for the sake of a traitor. In the Battle of Hengros, only a few thousand soldiers were the real Tang Han army, most of whom were vassal forces. This was actually a war to test the strength of the Arab Empire and decide whether to continue the westward expedition. In the revenge war of Feng Changqing, all 20000 soldiers were real Tang Han army.

 

[MMM-E]

General Gao Xianzhi who commanded the Tang Army at the Battle of Talas, was of Korean origin, and 1/3 of the Tang Army consisted of Karluk Turks

In fact, many Turkic nobles and military geniuses from the GokTurks joined the Tang Army


Ashina Jiesheshuai (Kür Şad): He is the hero of the event known in Turkish history as the "Kür Şad Revolt." While serving as the commander of the guard regiment in the Tang court, he stormed Emperor Taizong's palace in 639 to rescue captive Turks and ignite the spark of independence.

 

[ety]

And Ming Dynasty's territory was also deliberately downgraded by them.

And they purposely want us to owe them for making China a supergiant.

When you look at the Chinese citizens during the Ming Dynasty era painting and those from the late Qing Dynasty era, our Qing era predecessors were severely deformed and malnourished compared to their Ming era ancestors.

The guy who leaked the DF-31 ICBM information was an ethnic Manchu.

The people who sold the Han Chinese DNA samples to the western institution were also ethnic Manchu.

The leader of the state-owned enterprise that sold China's best equipment to India was also an ethnic Manchu.

Nuff said, we can no longer trust these people anymore.

I write in Chinese to capture the essence.

清朝的皇帝画像里个个都长得顽冥不灵的样子。清朝以前，中国人在画像中都是体面和看相都不错的。在清朝画像中，中国人大都是衣衫褴褛，瘦小猥琐。

 

[MMM-E]

But it is absurd to think that the Gelulu people who betrayed the Tang Dynasty could survive and even rule Central Asia.

After 750, there was no longer a single central authority in Central Asia

The region entered a massive power vacuum. The Battle of Talas in 751 and the subsequent An Lushan Revolt in China in 755 forced both the Chinese (Tang) and Abbasid Empires to effectively withdraw from the region. This situation transformed Central Asia entirely into a domain governed by local Turkic tribes and regional dynasties

This fragmented system established by local Turkic tribes and regional dynasties in Central Asia continued until the beginning of the 13th century Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire

 

[MMM-E]

After the 1750s, China began to invade Central Asia

The Chinese Army occupied Muslim Uyghur cities in the Tarim Basin ( East Turkistan ) in 1877.

In 1884, it was officially made a Chinese province and given the name "Xinjiang," which means "New Territory" in Chinese.

 

[MH.Yang]

General Gao Xianzhi who commanded the Tang Army at the Battle of Talas, was of Korean origin, and 1/3 of the Tang Army consisted of Karluk Turks

In fact, many Turkic nobles and military geniuses from the GokTurks joined the Tang Army


Ashina Jiesheshuai (Kür Şad): He is the hero of the event known in Turkish history as the "Kür Şad Revolt." While serving as the commander of the guard regiment in the Tang court, he stormed Emperor Taizong's palace in 639 to rescue captive Turks and ignite the spark of independence.

The Tang Dynasty was the most open and willing dynasty in China to accept foreign talents. After the An Lushan Rebellion, the thinking of Chinese or Han people changed. Until now, many Han people still attribute the cause of this war to immigrants and foreign generals.

 

[SteppeWolff]

Lastly I struggle to see what some Karluk nomadic Turks from Central Asia have of kinship with modern-day Turks (Anatolians)?

No. Anatolians are turkified Greeks.