Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

[Anatolia]

Lol, the Turks in history tried hard to invade and conquer China in the Sui and Tang dynasties. Instead, they were smashed into pieces, totally defeated and chased away to far away corners from China. Now talk of hypothetical wet dream that they would had conquered and ruled China as if real history didn't happen.

Battle reports may lie, but the battle lines do not. We only need to see who occupies East Asia and who has fled to Europe.

Turks were already in Europe during Tang Dynasty.

Why make up lies?

 

[ety]

Turks were already in Europe during Tang Dynasty.

Why make up lies?

Why do you think the Turks largely disappeared from Chinese borders now or became insignificant force near China ?

 

[retaxis]

guys lets not make this a han vs turk thing. MMME stirs a lot of shit and think turks rule the world and started all civilisations so don't get trolled into shit by him.

 

[Anatolia]

Why do you think the Turks largely disappeared from Chinese borders now or become insignificant force near China ?

Turks were in Europe centuries before Tang Dynasty existed. Do you deny this?

 

[retaxis]

Why do you think the Turks largely disappeared from Chinese borders now or became insignificant force near China ?

The whole nomadic people thing is such a large umbrella, its not a single race or people. Bit like the confucian-buddhist world which is similar to the nomadic world.
So it wouldn't be a normal comparison to compare a branch of different people to one country. Better to compare the sinosphere-buddhist-confucian world if wish to compare with nomadic-turko-mongol world.

we need to set the parameters first otherwise its like comparing a country with a province.

 

[ety]

Turks were in Europe centuries before Tang Dynasty existed. Do you deny this?

There might be some Turkic tribes already in Europe before Tang dynasty.

Were Turks defeated by Tang dynasty and chased away to Eurasia ?

AI Overview

The Tang Dynasty decisively defeated both the Eastern Turkic Khaganate in 630 CE and the Western Turkic Khaganate by 657 CE. Rather than chasing an entire unified population directly into Europe, these military campaigns shattered Turkic power on the Mongolian Plateau and Central Asia, leading some splintered tribes to migrate westward into the Ponto-Caspian and European steppes over subsequent decades and centuries. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The Tang Campaigns Against the Turks

• • Eastern Turks: Defeated in 630 CE by Tang forces under General Li Jing at the Battle of Yinshan. Their leader, Illig Qaghan, was captured, and many tribes submitted or were resettled. [1, 2, 3]
  • Western Turks: Crushed in a major 657 CE campaign led by Tang general Su Dingfang against Ashina Helu, bringing Central Asian oasis states temporarily under Tang protectorates

Migration to Eurasia

• • Westward Movement: While the Tang military broke the ruling khaganates and exacted submission, the ongoing political collapse and pressures from rival steppe groups pushed various Turkic elements (such as the Bulgars, Khazars, and later Pechenegs or Oghuz) to drift deeper into Western Eurasia and Eastern Europe. [1]

 

[Anatolia]

There might be some Turkic tribes already in Europe before Tang dynasty.

Were Turks defeated by Tang dynasty and chased away to Eurasia ?

AI Overview

The Tang Dynasty decisively defeated both the Eastern Turkic Khaganate in 630 CE and the Western Turkic Khaganate by 657 CE. Rather than chasing an entire unified population directly into Europe, these military campaigns shattered Turkic power on the Mongolian Plateau and Central Asia, leading some splintered tribes to migrate westward into the Ponto-Caspian and European steppes over subsequent decades and centuries. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The Tang Campaigns Against the Turks

• • Eastern Turks: Defeated in 630 CE by Tang forces under General Li Jing at the Battle of Yinshan. Their leader, Illig Qaghan, was captured, and many tribes submitted or were resettled. [1, 2, 3]
  • Western Turks: Crushed in a major 657 CE campaign led by Tang general Su Dingfang against Ashina Helu, bringing Central Asian oasis states temporarily under Tang protectorates

Migration to Eurasia

• • Westward Movement: While the Tang military broke the ruling khaganates and exacted submission, the ongoing political collapse and pressures from rival steppe groups pushed various Turkic elements (such as the Bulgars, Khazars, and later Pechenegs or Oghuz) to drift deeper into Western Eurasia and Eastern Europe. [1]

Huns in Europe (4th–5th century CE)​

• Attila’s Huns were active in Europe around 370–450 CE.
• That is 200–250 years before the Tang Dynasty even began (618 CE).
• They were fighting Rome, raiding Gaul, entering Italy, and reshaping European geopolitics.

2. Avars in Europe (6th–9th century CE)​

• The Avars arrived in Europe around 550 CE.
• They built a major empire in the Carpathian Basin.
• They fought the Byzantines, raided Italy, and dominated Central Europe.

Bulgars and Khazars also pre‑Tang or early Tang​

• Bulgars were in Eastern Europe by the 5th–6th century.
• Khazars rose to power in the 7th century, roughly parallel to early Tang.

Earliest Oghuz presence near Europe (9th–10th century)​

The Oghuz first show up in historical sources in the Aral Sea–Syr Darya region.From there, some Oghuz groups began drifting westward.

By the 10th century, Oghuz tribes were:

• raiding the Pontic Steppe
• interacting with Khazars
• fighting Pechenegs
• entering the fringes of Eastern Europe

Real Oghuz entry into Europe (11th century)​

The first major, organised Oghuz movement into Europe happens with:

• The Seljuks (11th century)​

They crossed Iran, entered Anatolia after 1040–1071, and eventually pushed into:

• the Balkans
• the Caucasus
• Byzantine territories

First movement toward Europe (9th–10th century)​

Pressure from:

• Karluks,
• Kimaks,
• and other steppe tribes

pushes Kipchaks westward.

By the late 10th century, they begin entering:

• the Volga steppe,
• the Ural region,
• and the Pontic steppe (modern Ukraine/southern Russia).

 

[Foinikas]

Turks were in Europe centuries before Tang Dynasty existed. Do you deny this?

If Tang dynasty was founded in 618 AD and ended in 907 AD,how on earth were the Turks in Europe "centuries before Tang dynasty existed"?

Edit: Oh come on,man! Huns and Avars?! Seriously? That doesn't count.

 

[Anatolia]

If Tang dynasty was founded in 618 AD and ended in 907 AD,how on earth were the Turks in Europe "centuries before Tang dynasty existed"?

Edit: Oh come on,man! Huns and Avars?! Seriously? That doesn't count.

why not? Were they not Turks

 

[retaxis]

I did DNA test...I guarantee I have far more Xiong-Nu and Hun DNA than modern turks living in Turkey. Even by all record and accounts, Huns/Xiong nu looked East Asian. I can claim real Turkish DNA more so than most Turks tbh.

 

[Foinikas]

why not? Were they not Turks

More like Lidl Turks

 

[Anatolia]

More like Lidl Turks

Still Turks. Point is Turks were all over. the idea that they were located in one area is nonsense.

 

[Anatolia]

I did DNA test...I guarantee I have far more Xiong-Nu and Hun DNA than modern turks living in Turkey. Even by all record and accounts, Huns/Xiong nu looked East Asian. I can claim real Turkish DNA more so than most Turks tbh.

View attachment 211883

I don't get it. I thought Han Chinese never mixed?

 

[retaxis]

I don't get it. I thought Han Chinese never mixed?

which professor said that? Han is made of thousands of ethnicities that bonded together over time including Hun/Xiongnu/Nomadics

During conquest of the Eastern and Western Turkestan millions of Turks also assimilated into Han

 

[retaxis]

Several Chinese compound and single-character surnames trace their roots to ancient Turkic tribes, clans, and royal houses (such as the Göktürks and Tiele confederations) that migrated into China and underwent rapid Sinicization during the Tang dynasty and subsequent eras. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Prominent Surnames with Turkic Roots

• • Ashina (阿史那 - Āshǐnà): The premier royal clan of the Göktürks. During and after the Tang dynasty, many members of the Ashina tribe integrated into Chinese society and military bureaucracy, eventually dropping or translating the multi-syllabic foreign name. [1, 2]
  • Shi (史 - Shǐ): While historically a traditional Chinese surname (meaning historian or scribe), the character was frequently adopted as a sinicized monosyllabic family name by members of the Ashina clan (such as Ashina Zhong/Shi Zhong) and various Sogdian/Central Asian families during the Tang period. [1, 2]
  • Ge (哥 - Gē) / Geshu (哥舒 - Gēshū): The compound surname Geshu, famous during the Tang dynasty through military figures like Geshuhan (哥舒翰), originated from the Tiele/Turkic tribal background of the Geshu branch in Central Asia.
  • Qibei / Qibi (契苾 - Qìbì): Derived from the Qibi, an ancient Tiele-Turkic tribe from the northern steppes that served under and integrated into Chinese imperial borders during the 7th century. [1]
  • Zhuhe / Zhuxie (朱邪 - Zhūxié): Originally a transcription of a Turkic/Shatuo tribal name. The Shatuo Turks later founded several regimes in northern China during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, with members adopting various Chinese surnames. [1, 2, 3]