TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[MMM-E]

China has worked on its engine technology for decades, invested billions, and is now finally (almost) at its goal. There's simply no interest—even for billions of dollars— to deliver its latest high-end engines to a rather loosely connected but otherwise not particularly close country, namely Turkey.

Turkiye doesnt want technology transfer
Turkiye needs 50-100 engines to produce 20-40 KAAN Fighter Jets until 2030 to avoid being at a disadvantage in the region against the F-35s

Turkiye develops its own TF-35.000 Engine to power the KAAN in 2032-2035 period


btw Turkiye is making an important contribution to the modern Silk Road, having completed the middle belt of the Beijing-London line

without Turkic States ( Turkiye-Kazakhstan-Azerbaijan ) China's OBOR project is a lame duck

China should offer a partnership strategy based on a win-win concept
selling 50-100 WS-10C Engines to Turkiye could not create a disadvantage for China.

 

[Trailer23]

btw Turkiye is making an important contribution to the modern Silk Road, having completed the middle belt of the Beijing-London line

without Turkic States ( Turkiye-Kazakhstan-Azerbaijan ) China's OBOR project is a lame duck

China should offer a partnership strategy based on a win-win concept
selling 50-100 WS-10C Engines to Turkiye could not create a disadvantage for China.

That right there seems like a very good arguement and one could/would look into.

Before getting China involved (in the conversation), I suppose the real question is...

Q. Would Turkey consider or would look into buying 50-100 WS-10c Engines from China?

China's response is not in question for the time being - as a request has not been made.

Before getting into a spat, one needs to know which side of the court does the ball lie.

 

[hyperman]

Give me please ONE reason!

China has worked on its engine technology for decades, invested billions, and is now finally (almost) at its goal. There's simply no interest—even for billions of dollars— to deliver its latest high-end engines to a rather loosely connected but otherwise not particularly close country, namely Turkey. In fact it is exactly the opposite; it has NO interest in strengthening a potential future product on the export market.

And that's precisely the point; WHAT INTEREST or ADVANTAGE would China have?

Again, the answer is: None! It's not going to build a potential competitor—especially not with high-end engines—if it can simply sell more J-35s itself.

Transfer of tech is very different from engine sales off the shelf. Engine sales are nothing more than the sale of the Aircraft but without the aircraft, infact most fighter jet sales are done with spare engines anyways. Why would china not sell engines if its willing to sell jets.

 

[nang2]

Transfer of tech is very different from engine sales off the shelf. Engine sales are nothing more than the sale of the Aircraft but without the aircraft, infact most fighter jet sales are done with spare engines anyways. Why would china not sell engines if its willing to sell jets.

It depends on to whom the engine is sold.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Turkiye develops its own TF-35.000 Engine to power the KAAN in 2032-2035 period

The full-power TF35000 engine is planned for 2032 - 2035 period. The full-power TF35000 engine offers 24,000 lbf dry thrust and 35,000 lbf wet thrust. (BTW, the F110 engine offers roughly 17,500 lbf dry thrust and 29,000 lbf wet thrust.)

However, there's another scenario worth considering. If the TF35000 achieves F110-level thrust by 2028, we might deploy the Kaans with this less mature engine, despite the risks. This could be necessary since we lack modern fighters equipped with AESA radars, let alone fifth-generation capabilities. Even with a weaker engine, having the Kaans operational by 2028 should still be a priority.

 

[Trailer23]

However, there's another scenario worth considering. If the TF35000 achieves F110-level thrust by 2028, we might deploy the Kaans with this less mature engine, despite the risks. This could be necessary since we lack modern fighters equipped with AESA radars, let alone fifth-generation capabilities. Even with a weaker engine, having the Kaans operational by 2028 should still be a priority.

If that is an option, shouldn't you guys go for it (already)...

I mean, it'll get the Pilot Training, the Doctrine and Logestics all sorted out before the upgraded Engines gets to a matured level.

And by 2032/35 - TuAF will already of had everything set up, as opposed to starting that point.

 

[MMM-E]

However, there's another scenario worth considering. If the TF35000 achieves F110-level thrust by 2028, we might deploy the Kaans with this less mature engine, despite the risks. This could be necessary since we lack modern fighters equipped with AESA radars, let alone fifth-generation capabilities. Even with a weaker engine, having the Kaans operational by 2028 should still be a priority.

If an engine with a thrust level of 30,000 lbf as F-110 in the first place by 2028 however, it will be an engine that uses the latest technologies and will be useful for us to get KAAN into the game as soon as possible

In the following years, we can increase this engine to 35,000 lbf, just like the Chinese engine WS-10 .... ( WS-10A with thrust of 29.000-31.000 lbf and WS-10G with thrust of 34.000-35.000 lbf )


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We are already developing KAAN for BVR combat rather than dogfight
Even with the American F-110 engine version of KAAN will be more advanced than all 4.5 gen Fighter Jets

and Turkiye can create a completely different and brand new balance point in terms quantity and cost effectiveness with KAAN + KIZILELMA + ANKA-4 manned-unmanned teaming ( MUM-T concept ) against the F-35

 

[MMM-E]

That right there seems like a very good arguement and one could/would look into.

Before getting China involved (in the conversation), I suppose the real question is...

Q. Would Turkey consider or would look into buying 50-100 WS-10c Engines from China?

Statement on KAAN from Defense Industries President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün
( 29.09.2025 )

We do not rely solely on a single source; we work with various supply channels and simultaneously evaluate alternatives.


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There are only 3 Countries in the world that produce engines in the 30,000 lbf class.
( USA , China and Russia )

When USA did not sell the PATRIOT Air Defense System to Türkiye, then Turkiye activated other alternative options.

China was ready to sell the HQ-9 air defense System to Turkiye , Chinese HQ-9 was a contender in Turkiye's T-LORAMIDS program and it was reportedly selected as the winner in 2013. ....... but USA deceived Turkiye at the NATO summit held in Antalya/Turkiye in 2015 and Turkiye has cancelled the purchase of HQ-9s from China

As USA continued not to sell the PATRIOT to Türkiye, we eventually bought the S-400 from Russia in 2017


The funny thing is that while USA does not sell weapons to Turkiye ( a NATO member ), Russia and China are selling advanced weapons systems to a NATO Country


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Q. Would Turkey consider or would look into buying 50-100 WS-10c Engines from China?

If Türkiye is forced to do so by USA, then Turkiye may turn to alternatives and cooperate with China, just like we did with HQ-9


The Turkish Air Force urgently needs new Fighter Jets, and we have made efforts to acquire a total of 120 Fighter Jets ( 40 F-35A , 40 F-16V and 40 Eurofighter ) from NATO countries, but they are stalling us since 2020

If USA does not provide F-110 engines for even 20 KAANs , the Turkish Air Force will lose its power in 2029 , even Greece gets the F-35

and The Air Force is vital for the security of a Country.

 

[Falcon26]

Statement on KAAN from Defense Industries President Prof. Dr. Haluk Görgün
( 29.09.2025 )

We do not rely solely on a single source; we work with various supply channels and simultaneously evaluate alternatives.


----------------------------

There are only 3 Countries in the world that produce engines in the 30,000 lbf class.
( USA , China and Russia )

When USA did not sell the PATRIOT Air Defense System to Türkiye, then Turkiye activated other alternative options.

China was ready to sell the HQ-9 air defense System to Turkiye , Chinese HQ-9 was a contender in Turkiye's T-LORAMIDS program and it was reportedly selected as the winner in 2013. ....... but USA deceived Turkiye at the NATO summit held in Antalya/Turkiye in 2015 and Turkiye has cancelled the purchase of HQ-9s from China

As USA continued not to sell the PATRIOT to Türkiye, we eventually bought the S-400 from Russia in 2017


The funny thing is that while USA does not sell weapons to Turkiye ( a NATO member ), Russia and China are selling advanced weapons systems to a NATO Country

Turkey as much as member of NATO as Pakistan is a Major non-NATO Ally. Both tags mean nothing and both nations are treated as hostile states by the US.

 

[Indos]

Turkey as much as member of NATO as Pakistan is a Major non-NATO Ally. Both tags mean nothing and both nations are treated as hostile states by the US.

The engine ban I think related to Israel opposition. As we know Israel lobby has big influence on US parliament members

 

[Trailer23]

Turkey as much as member of NATO as Pakistan is a Major non-NATO Ally. Both tags mean nothing and both nations are treated as hostile states by the US.

Jee, I wonder what the two Nations have in common other than similar Flags.

 

[MMM-E]

The engine ban I think related to Israel opposition. As we know Israel lobby has big influence on US parliament members

USA blocked sale of UCAVs , PATRIOT Air Defense System , F-35A and now F-110 Engines to Turkiye


1 -- USA blocked sale of UCAVS to Turkiye
and Turkiye was become Drone super power in the world with its own TB-2/3 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI , ANKA-3 , KIZILELMA

2 -- USA blocked sale of PATRIOT Air Defense System to Turkiye
and Turkiye was become the 3rd Country in NATO after USA and France with its own Air Defense Umbrella KORKUT , SUNGUR , GURZ , GOKDEMIR , HISAR-A/O and SIPER

3 -- USA blocked sale of F-35 to Turkiye
and Turkiye develops its own MUM-T concept ( munned-unmanned teaming ) with KAAN , KIZILELMA and ANKA-3/4

Americans still make the same mistake , They block sale of F-110 engines to Turkiye but sooner or later Turkiye will develop its own engines TF-6.000 , TF-10.000 and TF-35.000

 

[Deino]

Transfer of tech is very different from engine sales off the shelf. Engine sales are nothing more than the sale of the Aircraft but without the aircraft, infact most fighter jet sales are done with spare engines anyways. Why would china not sell engines if its willing to sell jets.

Plain and simple: It won't sell jets to Turkey and especially not WS-10C powered ones since this was the engine others suggested for Kaan. If they would deliver the less-advanced WS-10B is another question (IMO also not) but since someone noted the WS-10C, here I'm almost 100% sure, China won't deliver this engine. Not to Pakistan, not to Turkey ... they also don't deliver J-20!

 

[Deino]

Turkiye doesnt want technology transfer
Turkiye needs 50-100 engines to produce 20-40 KAAN Fighter Jets until 2030 to avoid being at a disadvantage in the region against the F-35s

Turkiye develops its own TF-35.000 Engine to power the KAAN in 2032-2035 period


btw Turkiye is making an important contribution to the modern Silk Road, having completed the middle belt of the Beijing-London line

without Turkic States ( Turkiye-Kazakhstan-Azerbaijan ) China's OBOR project is a lame duck

China should offer a partnership strategy based on a win-win concept
selling 50-100 WS-10C Engines to Turkiye could not create a disadvantage for China.

It would! Yes, Turkey is maybe an important part to the modern Silk road but they won't deliver their almost most modern engine to a NATO country. To even think this is ridicolous.

 

[Zarvan]

Turkiye work on engine projects as National Emergency kind of situation. Plus also try to get some engines from Rolls Royce which are close to being equal in capability to the jet.