The Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict

[hyperman]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

This is an anti Pashinyan account, it exaggerates and misrepresents.

 

[Blain2]

I firmly believe that even more than the western Europeans and the brand of Christianity that they practice, Muslims and Orthodox Christians have more in common culturally and even religiously.

I am optimistic that Azerbaijan and Armenia will move towards enduring peace and leave behind historic acrimony.

 

[Eşbah]

The Declaration of Independence of Armenia is not a declaration of independence, but a declaration of conflict, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan stated on Facebook live stream.

"The [ruling] Civil Contract Party is the only [political] force [in Armenia] that says that there should be no reference to the Declaration of Independence in the new constitution [of Armenia], it is a declaration of conflict, of conflict. We are not creating a state with that declaration to ensure the well-being and freedom of our citizens, but we are establishing a state for Nagorno-Karabakh and Western Armenia.

We must make that decision very clearly, especially since now the political field is essentially positioned in this logic: a party of peace, which says that we should not continue the Karabakh movement, and a party of war, which essentially directly or indirectly says that we should continue the Karabakh movement," the Armenian premier noted.

PM: Armenia's Declaration of Independence is a declaration of conflict (VIDEO)

We must make that decision very clearly...

news.am

 

[Foinikas]

The Declaration of Independence of Armenia is not a declaration of independence, but a declaration of conflict, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan stated on Facebook live stream.

"The [ruling] Civil Contract Party is the only [political] force [in Armenia] that says that there should be no reference to the Declaration of Independence in the new constitution [of Armenia], it is a declaration of conflict, of conflict. We are not creating a state with that declaration to ensure the well-being and freedom of our citizens, but we are establishing a state for Nagorno-Karabakh and Western Armenia.

We must make that decision very clearly, especially since now the political field is essentially positioned in this logic: a party of peace, which says that we should not continue the Karabakh movement, and a party of war, which essentially directly or indirectly says that we should continue the Karabakh movement," the Armenian premier noted.

PM: Armenia's Declaration of Independence is a declaration of conflict (VIDEO)

We must make that decision very clearly...

news.am

Now,imagine if a President appeared in Turkey,saying "we should exclude the Declaration of Independence and forget the 1920-1922 war,because it only led to a new era of conflict". Or saying "we must forget Northern Cyprus". The guy would have been lynched or a coup would have taken him down.

Yes,I know things are a bit different between Turkey and Armenia or any other country,
but imagine if that happened. My point is,Pashinyan is the archetype of the sellout leader,the Trojan Horse,the guy who is more centrist than the centrists. Because even communists who talk about peace and supposedly despise nationalism and irridentism,they wouldn't have gone THAT far as to say "we must make no reference to the declaration of independence". What could have Pashinyan or any other leader in Armenia done? Admit the defeat,try to minimize territorial losses and try to keep peaceful stance as much as he can. What is Pashinyan doing though? He rushed to sign the November 2020 plan,went further on to full collaboration with Azerbaijan and Turkey on whatever they demanded,he's denouncing all the history and legacy of his forefathers,basically everything current Armenians' ancestors fought for.

 

[Qaraca]

Now,imagine if a President appeared in Turkey,saying "we should exclude the Declaration of Independence and forget the 1920-1922 war,because it only led to a new era of conflict". Or saying "we must forget Northern Cyprus". The guy would have been lynched or a coup would have taken him down.

Yes,I know things are a bit different between Turkey and Armenia or any other country,
but imagine if that happened. My point is,Pashinyan is the archetype of the sellout leader,the Trojan Horse,the guy who is more centrist than the centrists. Because even communists who talk about peace and supposedly despise nationalism and irridentism,they wouldn't have gone THAT far as to say "we must make no reference to the declaration of independence". What could have Pashinyan or any other leader in Armenia done? Admit the defeat,try to minimize territorial losses and try to keep peaceful stance as much as he can. What is Pashinyan doing though? He rushed to sign the November 2020 plan,went further on to full collaboration with Azerbaijan and Turkey on whatever they demanded,he's denouncing all the history and legacy of his forefathers,basically everything current Armenians' ancestors fought for.

Rushed to sign the november 2020 plan? You know Armenia was losing the war badly, and that saved the lives of thousands of Armenian soldiers? 25 thousand Armenian soldiers had become encircled in last days of the war.

The logic is that if Armenia have territorial claims against Azerbaijan, then Azerbaijan can also have territorial claims against Armenia.

 

[Foinikas]

Rushed to sign the november 2020 plan? You know Armenia was losing the war badly, and that saved the lives of thousands of Armenian soldiers? 25 thousand Armenian soldiers had become encircled in last days of the war.

I know,I know. But my point is,Pashinyan seemed very eager to sign anything they gave him. And then started downplaying losing NKR,specifically I remember watching a video of him talking about a town,I think it was about Hadrut,saying things like "and what did we need it for,all these years and it wasn't developed" etc.

And I think in general Pashinyan has been very eager to get overly friendly with Aliyev and Erdogan after such a defeat.

 

[hodor]

Now,imagine if a President appeared in Turkey,saying "we should exclude the Declaration of Independence and forget the 1920-1922 war,because it only led to a new era of conflict". Or saying "we must forget Northern Cyprus". The guy would have been lynched or a coup would have taken him down.

Yes,I know things are a bit different between Turkey and Armenia or any other country,
but imagine if that happened. My point is,Pashinyan is the archetype of the sellout leader,the Trojan Horse,the guy who is more centrist than the centrists. Because even communists who talk about peace and supposedly despise nationalism and irridentism,they wouldn't have gone THAT far as to say "we must make no reference to the declaration of independence". What could have Pashinyan or any other leader in Armenia done? Admit the defeat,try to minimize territorial losses and try to keep peaceful stance as much as he can. What is Pashinyan doing though? He rushed to sign the November 2020 plan,went further on to full collaboration with Azerbaijan and Turkey on whatever they demanded,he's denouncing all the history and legacy of his forefathers,basically everything current Armenians' ancestors fought for.

If your constitution contains territorial claims against neighboring countries, it will be impossible to maintain good relations with your neighbors.

The Turkish constitution has never, at any point in history, contained territorial claims against neighboring countries.
Your comparison is quite flawed

 

[Foinikas]

If your constitution contains territorial claims against neighboring countries, it will be impossible to maintain good relations with your neighbors.

The Turkish constitution has never, at any point in history, contained territorial claims against neighboring countries.
Your comparison is quite flawed

He mentioned the declaration of independence shouldn't exist in the constitution,we're talking about the founding principles of a nation. Now I don't know what they say in their constitution about territorial claims,but I know Armenians always saw and felt NKR was their part. As for my comparison being "quite flawed",the Turkish constitutuon might say nothing about territorial claims,Turkish governments and actions though say a lot.

 

[hyperman]

Now,imagine if a President appeared in Turkey,saying "we should exclude the Declaration of Independence and forget the 1920-1922 war,because it only led to a new era of conflict". Or saying "we must forget Northern Cyprus". The guy would have been lynched or a coup would have taken him down.

Yes,I know things are a bit different between Turkey and Armenia or any other country,
but imagine if that happened. My point is,Pashinyan is the archetype of the sellout leader,the Trojan Horse,the guy who is more centrist than the centrists. Because even communists who talk about peace and supposedly despise nationalism and irridentism,they wouldn't have gone THAT far as to say "we must make no reference to the declaration of independence". What could have Pashinyan or any other leader in Armenia done? Admit the defeat,try to minimize territorial losses and try to keep peaceful stance as much as he can. What is Pashinyan doing though? He rushed to sign the November 2020 plan,went further on to full collaboration with Azerbaijan and Turkey on whatever they demanded,he's denouncing all the history and legacy of his forefathers,basically everything current Armenians' ancestors fought for.

Apples and oranges. Armenia's constitution specifically mentions that they want to take eastern Turkey and Karabakh. Turkey does not have that.

You are just advocating for belligerence, its not even in Armenian interests. b/c if they make claims on territories and they don't recognize borders with Turkey or Azerbaijan. What is there to say Turkey or Azerbaijan have to recognize these borders? Then you calculate who is more powerful Turkey and Azerbaijan or Armenia, and you realize how disastrous of a policy that is, and how much of a liability that is. Anyone supporting Armenia should realize, thats not a pro Armenians position.

 

[hyperman]

He mentioned the declaration of independence shouldn't exist in the constitution,we're talking about the founding principles of a nation. Now I don't know what they say in their constitution about territorial claims,but I know Armenians always saw and felt NKR was their part. As for my comparison being "quite flawed",the Turkish constitutuon might say nothing about territorial claims,Turkish governments and actions though say a lot.

Lmao, Foiny trying to be more of an Armenian nationalist than the Armenians. lol, stop advocating for things that are not in Armenians interests.

 

[Foinikas]

Lmao, Foiny trying to be more of an Armenian nationalist than the Armenians. lol, stop advocating for things that are not in Armenians interests.

lmao the American Turk trying to be more Turk than Turks in Turkey.

 

[Foinikas]

Apples and oranges. Armenia's constitution specifically mentions that they want to take eastern Turkey and Karabakh. Turkey does not have that.

You are just advocating for belligerence, its not even in Armenian interests. b/c if they make claims on territories and they don't recognize borders with Turkey or Azerbaijan. What is there to say Turkey or Azerbaijan have to recognize these borders? Then you calculate who is more powerful Turkey and Azerbaijan or Armenia, and you realize how disastrous of a policy that is, and how much of a liability that is. Anyone supporting Armenia should realize, thats not a pro Armenians position.

No,I'm not advocating for belligerence,I'm talking about not forgetting the foundations of your statehood,the struggles of your forefathers,your tradition. You don't go out and say "well f the declaration of independence".

 

[hyperman]

No,I'm not advocating for belligerence,I'm talking about not forgetting the foundations of your statehood,the struggles of your forefathers,your tradition. You don't go out and say "well f the declaration of independence".

If the foundations of your statehood are that you make claims on land outside of your state, especially when both the states you surround are bigger than you, then this puts you in a precarious situation, b/c if you don't recognize borders, why should your neighbors? The expectation that they recognize borders, while you reserve the right to take land outside of what you hold currently is a recipe for disaster, especially when you are the smaller party.

The Declaration of Independence says that the Armenian state considers Karabakh and "Western Armenia" as part of the state of Armenia, and that its the job of the state to take that land back. You put that in your constitution, you are putting yourself on a path to a conflict.

Stop advocating for Armenians to commit suicide foinikas, b/c if they get destroyed and become stateless, god knows it won't be you that goes to fight Turks and Azeris on their behalf, you aren't helping them.

You ever watched this clip:

Its describes this situation quite aptly.

The Armenians are the guy in the costume, and you are the crowd cheering and egging them on.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Foinikas]

The Declaration of Independence says that the Armenian state considers Karabakh and "Western Armenia" as part of the state of Armenia, and that its the job of the state to take that land back. You put that in your constitution, you are putting yourself on a path to a conflict.

Does it actually say that?

Stop advocating for Armenians to commit suicide foinikas, b/c if they get destroyed and become stateless, god knows it won't be you that goes to fight Turks and Azeris on their behalf, you aren't helping them.

You're still not getting what I'm saying. Pashinyan could have said nothing about all that and not provoke. This guy has been denouncing actual Armenian patriotism since 2020. You guys go around blaming Egypt and Jordan as "American puppets" or "Zionist slaves",
while praising Pashinyan for being so visionary and pioneering a new age in Armenian relationship with Turks and Azeris,saying he really wants peace and does everything for peace.

Let me ask you something,if in 1922 Turks lost and Turkey was confined in a small territory or you can imagine it in a modern scenario,let's just say Turkey is confined to 1/5 of what is it now,would be eager to cooperate and restore relations with all those who smashed you? Or if you heard Erdogan or whoever would be president,go on about how we need peace and we forget about our old places and we must start trading with Greeks,Americans,Jews,Arabs,Russians...whoever. How would that sit on you? i'm curious,I'm just curious about it. If you heard suffered a defeat worse than WWI and were confined to a small part of what is now Central Turkey,how would it have sounded if you had Erdogan rush to say "yes,we'll give you the entire Black Sea coastline too,even if you didn't take all of it,we'll give you the south coastline too. Let's start cooperating,let's be friendly,let's start trading.

 

[hyperman]

Does it actually say that?

It calls for the "reunification of armenian and Karabakh" and also rejects the Armenia Turkey border by making references to "Western Armenia". The Armenian government pre 2020 had avoided "an explicit and formal recognition of the existing Turkish-Armenian border." And their presidents had made several references in talks to "Western Armenia" needing to be "restored".

And are you suggesting that Turkey should make claims for areas outside of its internationally recognized territories Foiny? Thats quite bold of you. You trying to say Turkey should make claims to the Islands? lol if its valid for the Armenians and the treaties they signed, then it should be valid for Turkey too right? And unlike Armenia, the Turks are far stronger than Greece and the Geography even favors Turkey if Turkey decided that some islands should be Turkey's. You really want to go down that route despite treaties Turkey signed? lol