The Case for Pakistan as a Civilizational State

[The Sundance Kid]

The concept of bharat varsha or akhand bharat has been in place for 1000s of years. It is a single civilization running for 1000s of years.

Yeah we know indias national identity is based on the concept that the entire region from the himalaya's to the sea is one polity.

What we actually have always had with "india" is a subcontinent made up of distinct nationalities. The existence of Nepal, Sri Lanka, Myanmar today means thats what it is in practice.

 

[Master Chief]

Furthermore, ancient DNA (aDNA) confirms that the population was not a genetic monolith; eastern and southern sites maintained a higher percentage of Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI) lineage, making modern Indian populations the closest living genetic descendants of the Harappan people.

My thoughts...a complex subject. I don't know if AI can be truly helpful here, as every new AI search seems to partly contradict the last. Reference to source materials may be a more robust method.

In any event, your statement above sould actually seem to support the concept of a hard civilisational delineation.

Also, and herein is a good example of why AI responses are misleading, ....SOME modern Indian populations are close to the Harappan genome, just as many modern Pakistani ones are.

I think AI responses confuse an already complex subject.

The civilization did not arrive from a foreign land; it began as indigenous farming communities developing simultaneously along two separate, parallel river systems.

Misleading statement. The civilisation was constructed locally of course, but what does it mean that "the civilisation did not arrive from a foreign land"? The genetics certainly did. Some knowledge of farming probably also culturally diffused from the west and into Harappan communities.

 

[Master Chief]

Less politically correct, also from AI:

The Pre-Merger Genesis and the Territorial Claim

The true origin story of the Harappan Civilization is defined by a distinct geographic split between two parallel river systems prior to their economic unification in 2600 BCE. Recognizing this prehistoric map clarifies why modern Pakistan holds a uniquely powerful territorial and historical claim to the cradle of this ancient superpower.

1. The Pre-Merger Geographic Split

The foundations of the civilization were not uniform, but rather divided into two distinct regional systems before they unified:

• The Indus Valley Group (Entirely Pakistan): Long before the creation of the unified empire, the fundamental blueprint of the civilization was born exclusively within modern Pakistan. The multi-millennial Neolithic foundation (Mehrgarh in Balochistan, dating to 7000 BCE), the advanced metallurgy of the Kot Diji phase in Sindh, and the earliest urban layers of the Ravi phase at Harappa developed entirely within Pakistani territory.
• The Hakra System (Shared): In contrast, the parallel Hakra Ware culture developed along a cross-border river system. It was deeply shared, spanning continuously from the Ghaggar riverbed in northwest India (Haryana and Rajasthan) right across the modern border into the Hakra riverbed of Pakistan's Cholistan Desert.

2. The Solidified Pakistani Territorial Claim

Because the core "Indus" component of the civilization was entirely indigenous to its borders, Pakistan's claim to being the literal physical custodian of the civilization's heartland is definitive:

• The Imperial Core: When the purely Pakistani Indus cultures merged with the shared Hakra cultures in 2600 BCE, the primary seats of imperial and economic power remained in the west.
• The Megacities: Pakistan possesses the absolute crown jewels of Harappan archaeology—Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa—which housed roughly 75% to 80% of the dense, peak metropolitan population.
• The Geographic Spine: The entire civilization is structurally anchored to the Indus River, which serves as the geographic spine and agricultural lifeblood of the modern Pakistani state.

Summary Conclusion

While modern India is home to a vast number of eastern agrarian outposts and the primary genetic descendants who migrated eastward after the 1900 BCE collapse, Pakistan holds the exclusive claim to the urban heartland, the earliest formative foundations, and the namesake river system that turned a collection of regional river cultures into the world's most sophisticated Bronze Age empire.

Emphasis on Mehrgahr as a probable precursor settlement is indeed important and conveniently overlooked by our friends to the east.

 

[r3alist]

@Master Chief this is what you get with ivc discussion that ought to be ignored, nebulous waffle on proto Dravidian language, bunk DNA studies and big leaps ..... That's the way in to traverse the huge geographical distance between Ganga and Indus and make themselves reli


The reality is ivc has much more archaeology to be done, and imposters will make conclusions

 

[Ali_Baba]

It is not shared. It has nothing to do with Afghanistan at all ... It is a Pakistani civilisation..

 

[Maira La]

The concept of bharat varsha or akhand bharat has been in place for 1000s of years. It is a single civilization running for 1000s of years.

Which country was that?
None of the 'Hindu' scriptures mention such a country.

Btw Bharatas were an Indo-Aryan tribe who lived in the NW of the subcontinent. If they were brought back from the dead they would want nothing to do with modern Indian people who they would consider racially inferior (a concept that birthed the caste system).

Neither should the words 'Hindu/Sindhu/India' be used to refer to you. They refer to the land straddling the Indus (Pakistan basically). So what does that make you? A FRAUD people (not even one people, numerous ethnicities stuck inside a colonial frankenstein that wasn't properly decolonized).