The Egyptian-Turkish alliance.. Cairo and Ankara are moving towards a new Middle East through the “KAAN” stealth aircraft project

[_Arabia_]

You can keep on walking on the street of desire while staying under the Pakistani nuclear umbrella.

Ideally, as I wrote, KSA (Arabs as a whole) should not depend on outsiders in this regard and pursue nukes on their own as Pakistan did. Even if it would take many sacrifices. However having Pakistan as a partner and ally is the second best option in this regard.

In any case, the history of the region would have been much different had the region had nuclear proliferation decades ago. In particular from the Arab perspective (many past attempts in Iraq, Syria, Libya and even rumors of Egypt). For various reasons (main ones being Israel and the US/West) this was foiled.

However IMO in the future, we will likely see nuclear proliferation occurring across the board (globally) and AI will also change warfare and the world as we know it completely.

Luckily KSA is at the forefront (globally) when it comes to AI and investments in it.

But at the end of the day any talk of defeating Israel, liberating Palestine is a pipedream when your opponent (Israel) has a nuclear triad and you don't.

Imagine If Pakistan failed to develop nuclear weapons and if it had to face India without the nuclear security? It would likely have been really bleak.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Ideally, as I wrote, KSA (Arabs as a whole) should not depend on outsiders in this regard and pursue nukes on their own as Pakistan did. Even if it would take many sacrifices. However having Pakistan as a partner and ally is the second best option in this regard.

In any case, the history of the region would have been much different had the region had nuclear proliferation decades ago. In particular from the Arab perspective (many past attempts in Iraq, Syria, Libya and even rumors of Egypt). For various reasons (main ones being Israel and the US/West) this was foiled.

However IMO in the future, we will likely see nuclear proliferation occurring across the board (globally) and AI will also change warfare and the world as we know it completely.

Luckily KSA is at the forefront (globally) when it comes to AI and investments in it.

But at the end of the day any talk of defeating Israel, liberating Palestine is a pipedream when your opponent (Israel) has a nuclear triad and you don't.

Imagine If Pakistan failed to develop nuclear weapons and if it had to face India without the nuclear security? It would likely have been really bleak.

KSA should be the lead Arab country to possess nuclear weapons as it already has the established rocket force.

 

[_Arabia_]

KSA should be the lead Arab country to possess nuclear weapons as it already has the established rocket force.

I do not disagree with you, my friend, and I sincerely hope that this is already the case as numerous different sources (American, Iranian, Israeli) claim.

Not that I hope that KSA would ever use nuclear weapons or any other nation for that matter but we cannot deny that history has proven that two nuclear powers are unlikely to ever engage with each other in a direct military conflict. If they do they tend to be rather short-lived.

My theory, which I do not think is very controversial, is that Israel would not be behaving this bloodthirsty and erratic if neighboring Arab states had access to nuclear weapons or something as destructive.

It is pretty obvious. Same way that the US would likely never have invaded Iraq back in 2003 if Saddam had succeeded in acquiring nuclear weapons.

Another good and relevant example is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons back in 1994 if I recall (not googled it). Later (20 years later) to seal their fate when it comes to their national territory.

 

[Dalit]

KSA should be the lead Arab country to possess nuclear weapons as it already has the established rocket force.

There is not a single Islamic country in the world that would be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Pakistan is an extreme exception and an incredible mistake by the Western powers. That is extremely good luck for Pakistan. Fate has it that Pakistan would become a nuclear power.

 

[sutton9999]

The alliance is a bluff.

Israel often says the next is Turkey.
So, if war breaks out between Israel and Turkey.

What will Pakistan and Egypt do besides gesture？

 

[Dalit]

The alliance is a bluff.

Israel often says the next is Turkey.
So, if war breaks out between Israel and Turkey.

What will Pakistan and Egypt do besides gesture？

Nothing. Most non-Western alliances are gestures apart from a handful.

 

[_Arabia_]

There is not a single Islamic country in the world that would be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Pakistan is an extreme exception and an incredible mistake by the Western powers. That is extremely good luck for Pakistan. Fate has it that Pakistan would become a nuclear power.

Well, you are right about that and we have seen this in the Arab world directly (Libya, Syria, Iraq) but that is where you have to play your cards cleverly (don't be as stupid as the Iranians as an example) and make sacrifices.

North Korea did it as well and unlike what many "experts" claim, it did not occur with the blessing of next door China nor Russia. They would have preferred a North Korea that they could fully control.

Nothing. Most non-Western alliances are gestures apart from a handful.

True but even the Western alliances so far have not been fully tested. Would the West and the US really start a potential World War 3 for the sake of say tiny Estonia or Latvia if the Russians invaded or attacked? Not so sure about that one.

In the case of KSA, I am pretty sure that you would have millions of Muslims from across the world willing to defend Makkah and Madinah from say a potential Israeli or US invasion or what not. Regardless of regimes in power.

The alliance is a bluff.

Israel often says the next is Turkey.
So, if war breaks out between Israel and Turkey.

What will Pakistan and Egypt do besides gesture？

Turkiye is a NATO member state. Turkiye was the first country in the Muslim world to recognize Israel and one of the first in the world. They have had diplomatic ties for 70 years. Until 15-20 years ago they had really close military ties. Israel played a role in Turkiye's military industry growth early on in the process.

There is no chance of them going to war with each other any time soon with all due respect.

Unless, in some alternative universe, a future Turkish leader copies the Iranian regime approach of trying to prop up proxy groups next to Israel in order to gain influence.

Of course Israel is against any emerging, strong or stable state in the region. That is self-evident. However they will use the US and others to weaken those countries indirectly first through economic warfare, sanctions, bad press etc.

We have seen in Gaza that no Muslim regime (or non-Muslim regime for that matter) is willing to risk itself by attacking Israel (USA) directly. Hence the tragic fate of Gaza.

Egypt is the only country with a direct land border with Gaza that is not called Israel. You saw what that did. Answer. Nothing.

 

[The SC]

Slightly off topic , long time back I read somewhere that Egyptian arms industry was reasonably advanced during the late 19th and early 20th century...is that true ?

Very true under king Farouk.. and in the 60s they made a very potent fighter jet called HELWAN HA-300..









Imagine ..it was flying at mach 2 in the 60s..

 

[The SC]

The challenge this alliance will face is the Samson option. if Israel is cornered they wont hesitate to nuke Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia. to nuke Pakistan they will use their cannon fodder Hinduvta Mother land.

There is no Samson option against this alliance..first Turkey controls about 40 US nukes among 80.. Saudi Arabia has at least 7 nukes according to CIA experts..Egypt has at least a few nuclear heads courtesy of Russia during the 1973 Ramadan war with Israel fully backed by the US..Pakistan has enough for the Hinduvta..it can spare a few for other ennemies for sure..

 

[The SC]

Ideally, as I wrote, KSA (Arabs as a whole) should not depend on outsiders in this regard and pursue nukes on their own as Pakistan did. Even if it would take many sacrifices. However having Pakistan as a partner and ally is the second best option in this regard.

In any case, the history of the region would have been much different had the region had nuclear proliferation decades ago. In particular from the Arab perspective (many past attempts in Iraq, Syria, Libya and even rumors of Egypt). For various reasons (main ones being Israel and the US/West) this was foiled.

However IMO in the future, we will likely see nuclear proliferation occurring across the board (globally) and AI will also change warfare and the world as we know it completely.

Luckily KSA is at the forefront (globally) when it comes to AI and investments in it.

But at the end of the day any talk of defeating Israel, liberating Palestine is a pipedream when your opponent (Israel) has a nuclear triad and you don't.

Imagine If Pakistan failed to develop nuclear weapons and if it had to face India without the nuclear security? It would likely have been really bleak.

The problem is not even Israel's nuclear triad (if it is true).. the problem is the full backing by the US and its 10 000 nukes ..The Arabs..at least can eliminate Israel with Chemical and biological weapons (well documented).. but they can't get to the US with these deterrents..

 

[MMM-E]

Have you sorted out your foreign trade imbalance ? As far as I know that's the only economic issue you were facing.

Tourism revenue ( $65 billion ) balances the foreign trade deficit.

Actually, if we didn't import oil and gas from abroad, we wouldn't have a foreign trade deficit.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I do not disagree with you, my friend, and I sincerely hope that this is already the case as numerous different sources (American, Iranian, Israeli) claim.

Not that I hope that KSA would ever use nuclear weapons or any other nation for that matter but we cannot deny that history has proven that two nuclear powers are unlikely to ever engage with each other in a direct military conflict. If they do they tend to be rather short-lived.

My theory, which I do not think is very controversial, is that Israel would not be behaving this bloodthirsty and erratic if neighboring Arab states had access to nuclear weapons or something as destructive.

It is pretty obvious. Same way that the US would likely never have invaded Iraq back in 2003 if Saddam had succeeded in acquiring nuclear weapons.

Another good and relevant example is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons back in 1994 if I recall (not googled it). Later (20 years later) to seal their fate when it comes to their national territory.

We know that the nuclearization of KSA will be similar to that of Pakistan, just to ensure itself not to be invaded by other superpowers.

Since KSA has recently greatly shifted its oil pegged currency from the usd to rmb.

China should secure a secret deal with the KSA.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

There is not a single Islamic country in the world that would be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Pakistan is an extreme exception and an incredible mistake by the Western powers. That is extremely good luck for Pakistan. Fate has it that Pakistan would become a nuclear power.

Since the western powers are in decline and cannot keep their promise anymore.

Pakistan represents the non-Arab Muslim nuclear power, while KSA could represent the Arab Muslim nuclear power.

 

[MMM-E]

We (KSA/Arabs) need nuclear weapons. Everything else is noise.

Arab World can not produce even a Cruise Missile - Turbojet Engine
NO Defense Industry

Israel played a role in Turkiye's military industry growth early on in the process.

Nothing
Only modernization of F-4 Jets and M-60 Tanks .... nothing else

 

[Ali_Baba]

Arab World can not produce even a Cruise Missile - Turbojet Engine
NO Defense Industry



Nothing
Only modernization of F-4 Jets and M-60 Tanks .... nothing else

Everyone has to start from somewhere… what you say about the “Arabs” was once said about Turkiye until the journey to build local capabilities started…… for Turkiye.