This officer should be court martialed

[muz]

 

[muz]

How much per post do you get? Be honest now

5 rupees for the starting lvl
the head honcho like Saad Kaiser gets paid 40 to 90 thousand and when they want to make a slick (Cringe) propaganda video the main planner like the acha jee video gets you paid 15 to 30 lakhs and for the remaining participants 1 to 5 lakhs

 

[muz]

In India neta's wives and kids behave in the same asshole way. Guess tells us who the ruling classes are on both sides of the border.

Regards

At least your people can vote that clown out in the next election our side just rigs it

 

[Mobius]

The level of garoor and takabar these Army personnel and their families have is unmatched. I've seen countless examples of where there ego and sense of power rips up the rule of law and unfortunately this rot is gone far too deep. Army really does need to go back to the barracks and stay there, otherwise the country will never flourish.
The only thing that can prevent this happening again is if there is major reform. Give police more powers or have a special force where anyone wielding a gun (Army or otherwise) unlawfully gets shot on sight. No questions asked.

 

[Qureshi]

Alright, even though this AI complied propaganda bullsh1t does not deserve any response but since alot of PTI cultists share similar brain rot nonsense might as well I just destroy this garbage for heck of it.

East India company was there to plunder and loot resources and wealth and take it back to Great Britain.
There is no evidence to suggest Pakistan Army is exploiting local resources for the benifit of foreign government in similar scale as East India company. Infact it was Mughal empire who built such enormous wealth and if your learn your history you will know that in Mughal empire it was mainly the military that was controlling politics and wealth.

(The mansabdari-jagirdari system was particularly important. Instead of simply paying every military officer a normal salary, the state could assign a jagir, meaning the right to collect specified revenues from a territory. The officer used those revenues to maintain himself and fulfill his obligations to the state.
So you could roughly visualize Mughal power as:
Military power ⬇
Political authority ⬇
Control of revenue ⬇
Ability to maintain the military and bureaucracy ⬇
Further political control
This created a military-fiscal system.)

Not sure how 1800s and 1900s millions of peoples deaths at the hands of British empire can be associated with Pakistan Army. You should take a look at how Russia China and Iran uses iron fist to control its people. Sometimes you got to take your stick out to control the zoo.

You’re still arguing against something I didn’t actually say. I never claimed Pakistan Army is literally the East India Company, or that British colonialism & Pakistan today are identical. “West Pakistan Company” was a political analogy about the concentration of power, control over resources & the creation of a state within the state.

If you want to challenge that argument, then look at the military establishment’s own economic footprint. Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Askari, Bahria Foundation, Shaheen Foundation & the wider military-linked business network are not imaginary. Then there is the huge real-estate footprint through DHA & other military-linked housing schemes. You can argue about the exact numbers, taxation or where the profits ultimately go, but pretending this economic empire doesn't exist doesn't answer the point.

Then comes the bigger issue: political & institutional influence. The military establishment has historically had a role far beyond defense — influencing governments, elections, political alliances, bureaucracy, media & other state institutions. That is what people mean when they describe it as a “state within a state.” It doesn't require believing that the Army personally controls every judge, journalist, bureaucrat or politician.

The informal economy & border trade are another part of the picture. Smuggling of fuel & other goods across the Iran & Afghanistan borders has continued despite fencing. The question is not simply “who physically smuggles it?” but who has the influence & capacity to allow these networks to operate at such a scale. If you disagree with that, then provide evidence to the contrary.

So the Mughal example doesn't really rescue your argument. You explained how a military-fiscal system worked centuries ago. I’m talking about whether a modern constitutional state should allow one institution to accumulate such extensive political, institutional & economic power.

And bringing up Russia, China and Iran doesn't change that discussion either. We are talking about Pakistan.

You don't have to agree with my analogy. But if your answer to all of this is “PTI brain rot” & “ChatGPT propaganda,” you're still attacking the person making the argument instead of actually disproving the argument.

 

[flyingorca]

The level of garoor and takabar these Army personnel and their families have in unmatched. I've seen countless examples of where there ego and sense of power rips up the rule of law and unfortunately this rot is gone far too deep. Army really does need to go back to the barracks and stay there, otherwise the country will never flourish.
The only thing that can prevent this happening again is if there is major reform. Give police more powers or have a special force where anyone wielding a gun (Army or otherwise) unlawfully gets shot on sight. No questions asked.

A question for you, what would have happened to the people who demanded its military to go back to barracks during Muslim empire such as Ottoman and Mughal?

 

[Mobius]

A question for you, what would have happened to the people who demanded its military to go back to barracks during Muslim empire such as Ottoman and Mughal?

Going back to the barracks means focusing on fighting our adverserys at the borders. Not welding guns and acting like rambo on your own civilians (regardless of if the civilian is right or wrong).
Your question is a moot point.

 

[flyingorca]

You’re still arguing against something I didn’t actually say. I never claimed Pakistan Army is literally the East India Company, or that British colonialism & Pakistan today are identical. “West Pakistan Company” was a political analogy about the concentration of power, control over resources & the creation of a state within the state.

If you want to challenge that argument, then look at the military establishment’s own economic footprint. Fauji Foundation, Army Welfare Trust, Askari, Bahria Foundation, Shaheen Foundation & the wider military-linked business network are not imaginary. Then there is the huge real-estate footprint through DHA & other military-linked housing schemes. You can argue about the exact numbers, taxation or where the profits ultimately go, but pretending this economic empire doesn't exist doesn't answer the point.

Then comes the bigger issue: political & institutional influence. The military establishment has historically had a role far beyond defense — influencing governments, elections, political alliances, bureaucracy, media & other state institutions. That is what people mean when they describe it as a “state within a state.” It doesn't require believing that the Army personally controls every judge, journalist, bureaucrat or politician.

The informal economy & border trade are another part of the picture. Smuggling of fuel & other goods across the Iran & Afghanistan borders has continued despite fencing. The question is not simply “who physically smuggles it?” but who has the influence & capacity to allow these networks to operate at such a scale. If you disagree with that, then provide evidence to the contrary.

So the Mughal example doesn't really rescue your argument. You explained how a military-fiscal system worked centuries ago. I’m talking about whether a modern constitutional state should allow one institution to accumulate such extensive political, institutional & economic power.

And bringing up Russia, China and Iran doesn't change that discussion either. We are talking about Pakistan.

You don't have to agree with my analogy. But if your answer to all of this is “PTI brain rot” & “ChatGPT propaganda,” you're still attacking the person making the argument instead of actually disproving the argument.

Qureshi's post results says.... its 100 percent AI.

@Oscar

What is the forum rule regarding copy pasting AI generated response as your own words.

 

[flyingorca]

Going back to the barracks means focusing on fighting our adverserys at the borders. Not welding guns and acting like rambo on your own civilians (regardless of if the civilian is right or wrong).
Your question is a moot point.

Since alot of PTI followers fantasize about Riyasat e Medina thus I asked a very valid hypothetical question.
My question would indeed be moot point if Imran Khan did not use Riyasat e Medina Churan to get sympathy votes.

 

[Mobius]

Since alot of PTI followers fantasize about Riyasat e Medina thus I asked a very valid hypothetical question.
My question would indeed be moot point if Imran Khan did not use Riyasat e Medina Churan to get sympathy votes.

For the record, I'm not a PTI follower. I just believe the the party with the legitimate mandate of the people should be in power. It's beyond a shadow of a doubt that PTI has the votes of the overwhelming majority.
And as for Riyasat e Medina, surely that's a good model to strive for? Rather that then a hybrid regime whos measure of successful governance is how seamlessly it can keep organising the circus while law and order collapses, public administration deteriorates, all whilst the illegitimate ruling elite are in and out the country on foreign tours while the economy is on fire.

 

[Desprado123]

Shall I show you everywhere PTI supporters used "1 man against 1 million swine" talking to IK or other similar examples? Or even current and former Think tanks going all out to curse anyone who critiques PTI as zionists?

That is where it all comes full circle - the Makhsoos idara - all powerful it is - is just a reflection of what EVERY Pakistani can become given that power.

And how all other Pakistanis who horse isnt in the lead will go all out to express every sort of "baby out with the bathwater" ideals they can bring...

I am honestly - hand on Quran(cant take a picture) - looking forward to the day IN CASE some sort of violent and ethnic event takes out or guts this Makhsoos idara and then see everyone turn against each other or the next largest "idara" or party.

Afghan lovers will worship their Afghan lords, Punjabiyat will do something and so on.. and there will be plenty who will be "The fauj was right" and wanting the same boots in their butts because that was familiar... even if it is the same establishment rotten system - or something similar.

All because no one is willing to recognize who they truly are...True change is often inside-out and outside-in at the same time.
You need change within the military just as you need activist parties like the PTI -- otherwise - as witnesses again and again:

"Ya Moosa - make for us a god just as they have gods. "

One of my lady friend as she has done Masters from UK had an arguement that she said that Imran Khan has give us awareness and direction. I asked her can you explain a bit more what direction and awareness. She said that he has opened our eyes. I said just name one development he has done in 3.7 years period. All she did was named ring road, motor way, Punjab water development, every power plant she googled and send around 50 to 60 development from Google without even reading the date and all was PMLN era. She is till my friend and lives in Islamabad.

What I meant is that she is very well educated but her common sense, research and knowledge is absolutely 0. Problem is that Pti thinks history from 2022 not 1947.

It is documented that many drops out are CEO of billion dollar companies even Elon Musk was a dropout and Nvidia CEO was employee of AMD and got fired from that company. I mean that education never improves your common sense or IQ. It is your own experience and will that will.

 

[hussain0216]

Its all pashtunists

Get these sons of whores of the country and back to Afghanistan

They can't act like humans anywhere, all they know is violence and donkey behaviour

You can't have educational institutions infected by animals who are only there to partake in some weird ethnocentric gangs

 

[Mobius]

 

[Mobius]

She was out of control. Police should have done a better job to restrain her.....

 

[Mobius]