Foinikas
Elite Member
Did you know Greece has more Pakistanis than Turkey?
Turkey Greece Relations and Maritime Disputes
- Thread starter hyperman
- Start date
Sinan
Registered Member
Lip service.
He lowkey pointed all the problems and listed all things Turkey needs to do. Repeated the same things as previous Greek prime minister did.
His speech had no meaning.
If he wants things he needs to offer things.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
- Thread starter
- #66
Mitsotakis is an A-hole, but less of an A-hole than Dendias. Dendias seems to curse Turkey at every venue he attends, even if it has nothing to do with Turkey. Atleast Mitsotakis has not lost his mind like him, he attack Turkey too and lobbies against Turkey, but atleast he tries to balance it out by also engaging with Turkey like he is here. The Foreign Minister Gerapetritis is the most sensible out of all of them, is soft spoken, doesn't say racist and bigoted stuff, and sticks to the issues, respectful, and doesn't provoke..
Foinikas
Elite Member
Of course,you don't like them going against Turkish ambitions.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
- Thread starter
- #68
Listen not one of them can do a damn thing if Turkey wants to actually do something(Turkey just wants the status quo and no unilateral action, and to keep things from while things are hashed out diplomatically).
In terms of policy, Gerapetritis is not really all that different from Greece's stance overall. The difference is in tone and provocation. Gerapetritis voices his disagreements but ultimately he doesn't fearmonger and he engages diplomatically.
Dendias explicitly tries to turn it into Islamophobic framing and Turkophobia to stoke things, he tries to frame things in a civilizational conflict with regards to tensions between Greece and Turkey. He tries to make is as Christianity vs Islam or Turkey vs the West and increasingly "Judeo-Christian" vs Turkey. All to try to sell his little grievances over EEZ zones. His tone is the problem, and constantly trying to bad mouth Turkey as well as trying to push for a confrontation with Turkey via the Israel stuff.
Foinikas
Elite Member
Turkey literally wants half the Aegean and an EEZ stretching from the Anatolian coast to Libya ignoring everything in-between
Because he was put in that place by Mitsotakis as a loyal wingman.
Dendias simply won't let any Turkish provocation unanswered. I may be constantly criticizing him for his lacking as a MoD,but the guy doesn't badmouth Turkey for no reason. We've had a constant badmouthing of Greece and Cyprus during the Erdogan,Çavusoglu, Akar government for 4 years straight. I don't blame him for that. Turks are being equipped and geopolitically surrounding us,other countries need to be aroused and come in our side.
Problem is he talks and talks and often says something vague that is completely unnecessary...and causes havoc.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
- Thread starter
- #71
Dendias is going to provoke and actually make something thats a disagreement turn into an actual confrontation(I bet he is the one behind this 6 to 12 BS expansion). Then he will realize that all the daddies that he has been talking smack to about Turkey have no interest in actually dying for Greece, then the realization is come. Israelis aren't going to die over EEZ or some little islands, neither the French either.
Foinikas
Elite Member
No,he is not. Other members of the government have mentioned it,including Mitsotakis if I'm not mistaken,but there are no plans to expand to 12 miles in the Aegean,as far as the public knows at least.
Let me ask you something,yesterday Erdogan said we should solve our problems according to International Law. Is he willing to accept International Law? Is Turkey willing to sign UNCLOS and abide by it? If yes,that is a big change in geopolitical doctrine and one that nulls the Mavi Vatan when it comes to the Aegean part.
Sinan
Registered Member
Look, Turkey will never ever sign UNCLOS, it was written by great powers considering Oceans not a complex sea like Aegean.
You as it is now, already control a huge chunk of Aegea. Expanding to 12 miles almost have no effect on your country in anyway. Yet, it cuts our access to open seas.
So, you could decleare that Greece guarantees that it will keep it's territorial waters in 6 miles. That kind of action (showing good faith) would solve many many problems. And it's not like you are losing something.
However, insisting on 12 miles, mentioning it over and over again... It seen as an enemy action from Turkey.
You want more elaboration. Miço come and said many thing;
- He said there should be no threats. He is talking about Casus Belli. He wants Turkey to null it. Turkey did that against 12 mile expansion, do you give any assurance on 12 mile expansion while wanting us to remove Casus Belli ? Answer is no.
- While he talks about the Greek and Greek Church in Turkey, he says you can't want anything for Turks in Greece because they are mentioned in the treaty as Muslims. Again wants things, never offer anything. He could show good faith, you do this for Greeks, we do these things for Turks. Again, no.
- He wants our Aegean army to dissolve. Aegean army is there as Greece placed weapons on their Islands. He could have said, Let's go one by one. You dissolve this brigade, we disarm this Island. As we finish, all Islands would be disarmed, and Aegean army dissolved.
This is not how you negotiate, you don't come and force your maximalist position while other side is superior on every metric.
Greek politicians have no guts to start even from the tiniest problem. As they love to ride the nationalist hype. We will see, procative actions, declerations from Greek officials in 2027 as there is an election.
What Greeks fail to realize is, world is changing. US interests lie in Pasific, European security architecture being rebuild. Turkey gaining power in every aspect. Not staying idle, signing deals with Exxon, Chevron, BP. What are you going to do when Turkey begins to search for oil with American companies, escorted by American and Turkish warships, while some European countries offers only lip service?
Foinikas
Elite Member
Man,what are you talking about,the majority of the world has signed UNCLOS and conforms to International Law. Even the US abide by it,though for internal political rivalries they've decided to formally not be a signatory,but they abide it and promote it. There are situations far worse than the Aegean.
The problem comes from Turkey's threats every time we try to drill in our waters. That's why some people here both politicians and other,claim the 12 nm expansion would solve any Turkish denial of our sovereignity. However,Turkey has put this casus belli and this turns things even worse.
You have to understand(not you personally,Turkey in general)that expanding to 12 miles is the right of every country that has signed UNCLOS,by International law it is Greece's legal right. Now,would that cause problems with Turkey since you guys have been nagging about it? Yes. But by International Law,it is our right. What I believe could be the solution,is an agreement that with a 12 mile expansion,Turkey's commercial shipping wouldn't be disrupted and it would be ridiculous for Greece to disrupt any commercial shipping. Even for fishing they could find an agreement.
Yes,and I heard that it was actually the Turks back then who insisted the minority be called Muslim and not Turkish. You have to understand again,that the Muslim minority in Thrace isn't solely of Turkish origin. A large part is Pomak and another is Muslim who doesn't identify as Turkish. So you can't claim they are all Turkish. In fact,the Pomaks often complain and accuse Turkish policies trying to put them in the same basket.
It is ridiculous to claim that you have an entire Aegean Army and the biggest landing fleet in the Mediterranean,because you feel "threatened" by small garissons on islands. The Turkish government knows it very well,these forces cannot launch invasions. They know,these are only small defensive units. On the contrary,on the Turkish side there's an entire Army and new units are being established the last couple of years,so Turkey is adding more forces there. If Turks feel "insecure" because Greece has a few M1117 Guardian,M113s and some M48s on some islands along with SHORADs....well if you still feel threatened and insecure by that,dismantle the Aegean Army,truthfully move these units elsewhere and we could scale down the already small garissons on the islands close to you. But that's all just a childish excuse for the Turkish government to keep tensions high and dispute the Greek ownership of the islands.
Lol,but what's maximalist? Your side says we should "share the wealth 50-50" and prints maps of Mavi Vatan with half the Aegean as Turkish. What's maximalist? The fact that you've been trying to usurp our rights as given by international law,by saying we're "violating Turkey's rights"? Come on.
And Turkish leaders don't love to ride the nationalist hype? Even moreso than Greeks? Do you want me to repost all the screenshots of Erdogan,Kilicdaroglu and Bahçeli threatening with invasion,with destruction,with annexation of the dodecanese,with wars,with harsh lessons,with interventions? And not even during election time.
I don't know what will happen then,but apparently we're also getting help from American companies.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
- Thread starter
- #75
International Law is whatever currently exists. Turkey is not bound by things its never signed. From the perspective of International Law, Turkey is following international law. There is basic international law, then there are supplemental treaties. Turkey is not bound by things its never signed.
