Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Oublious]

An interesting post I found on defencepoint.gr



A few points by me

• Yes,the Israelis have experience in intercepting rockets,ballistic and cruise missiles and UAVs. They're actually among the top countries with the most experience in that.
• Yes,the Turks don't have experience in making AA systems,they're new to this.
• However,to be fair we can't judge the overall quality of a system by one destroyed launcher.
• Especially if that launcher was used by foreigners. Of course,you never know if it was actually Turkish crews manning the Sudani systems.
• Individual launchers and/or radars are often destroyed in wars. We've seen that in Nagorno-Karabakh,in Ukraine,in Libya,maybe even in Syria.

Israel airfefence system have never fought against a strong technologic enemy. Yes they have good missile defence systems against BM. But they need a lot off radars to spot it. And all the missiles comes from 1 direction like hizbies and Hamas fires. Put ther airdefence system to the test with moder EW systems and watch.

Like always overated, put it in Ukraine it will downgrade 10 levels..

 

[Sinan]

Thats contradicts his point of it not being tested.

He is saying Turkish systems are untested and perform badly and he is using the sudanese video as an example, its not true.

Yes, but he is talking on the air defence systems. So, kind of right that we don't have much experience in air defence, esspecially when you compare with Israel.

However, i said that "he is generally right". He is not right about Hisar performing badly based on a single video.

 

[Foinikas]

That guys's assessment is stupid. The only way to test is to go to a full on war. This doesn't mean the system is useless.

Secondly he cites a non integrated standalone point defense system operated by the sudanese as proof of something. Point to single system in the world that is nonintegrated what hasn't been hit, there are none, as we have seen with Israeli systems being hit, Western Systems in Ukraine being hit, Russians systems being hit, etc. Turkey has experience with UAVs against Air Defense Systems, so it know how the Air Defense systems should be ideally integrated and implemented.

No,no he's not wrong. It's not completely wrong. Like Sinan said. I mean look,it's a valid point,but like I said in the post too you can't draw conclusions from the destruction of one launcher. Now if somebody told me 5 or 6 units were destroyed,I'd say ok well the system has problems. If they told me,you know the Turks lost some 4-5 Hisar in two months,I'd just say the system sucks.

Look,the Israelis are right to say that,they have a point. But the Turks are also right to say it's a new system,it's just getting battle experience,we're new to making AA weapons etc.

I think the problem lies in certain Turkish posters and media(and especially the media)
who often portray the Steel Dome as something that's gonna be super,Turkish radars,
AA systems,missiles unmatched in quality,Hisar,Siper,Gokturk,Sungur among the best in the world. Of course that serves two purposes: Export advertisement and sales and boost of national pride and popularity of the goverment.

Apart from that it's a decent effort at the creation of Turkey's own ecosystem and most of all,buiseness. Sales. Like,Soviets used to sell AA systems by the hundreds even if they were trash or downgraded export versions or early models. Socialist and Third world countries would buy them and love them. Same thing as China before they turned to quality.

 

[Foinikas]

And all the missiles comes from 1 direction like hizbies and Hamas fires. Put ther airdefence system to the test with moder EW systems and watch.

Like always overated, put it in Ukraine it will downgrade 10 levels..

Well that's entirely true,during the attacks from Iran,there were cruise missiles and UCAVs coming from the Houthis as well,that means from the south. East,north,south. And if you count Hamas,west as well.

 

[MMM-E]

Thats contradicts his point of it not being tested.

He is saying Turkish systems are untested and perform badly and he is using the sudanese video as an example, its not true.

They think they can discredit Turkish systems


Turkiye developed UCAV technology later than the USA and Israel. They said Turkish UCAVs lacked combat experience and advanced technology...

Then, when Turkiye deployed its UCAVs in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Karabakh, and Ukraine, Turkish UCAVs achieved unprecedented success worldwide and created a new concept.

Now, the same group saying the same things about Turkish air defense systems... If the Turkish Armed Forces have accepted a system, it means we have developed a very good weapon according to NATO standards.

We have air defense systems that can stop the enemy. Let these People talk as much as they want

If only they would send their F-35s so we could shoot down a few of them, just like Iran hit an F-35, despite its old technology... Then, just like Turkish UCAVs, we would sell Turkish air defense systems to 38 countries like hot cakes


---------------------------------------------------------------------

The important thing is that Turkiye has developed its own systems; only one anti-ballistic missile remains, and we plan to put it into service within 5 years

And Turkiye became the third country in NATO to do this, after the US and France.

 

[Oublious]

Well that's entirely true,during the attacks from Iran,there were cruise missiles and UCAVs coming from the Houthis as well,that means from the south. East,north,south. And if you count Hamas,west as well.

Yeah thanks to Americans and EU defending them.

 

[Eşbah]

No, he is not wrong. Did we test our systems on Full-Scale war? But they are tested in multiple conflicts. Syria, Armenia, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and many others, also in operations against PKK. Terorists, even Selçuk Bayraktar says that experience is invaluable.

Isn't this a bit contradictory? A full-scale war is actually a situation where Turkey would deploy a multi-layered, integrated defense system. Sure, we're still figuring things out, but remember, we were also newcomers in drones, missiles, radars, and a bunch of other systems just 15 to 20 years back.

Our systems haven't been put to the test in a direct state-to-state conflict, but if we look at it objectively, even Iran's outdated and inadequate defense systems, which have gaps in coverage, managed to deter Israel and the world's strongest military (US).

They opted for stand-off missiles for a reason.

So far, I'm happy with how our air defense systems are progressing, but we definitely need better coverage and even more advanced missiles. I believe radar technology isn't the issue in our case but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Apart from that it's a decent effort at the creation of Turkey's own ecosystem and most of all,buiseness. Sales. Like,Soviets used to sell AA systems by the hundreds even if they were trash or downgraded export versions or early models. Socialist and Third world countries would buy them and love them. Same thing as China before they turned to quality.

Soviet air defence systems weren't really trash though during most of the cold war. The technology discrepancy only started in the 80s and continued too this day because of corruption in russia, the ones that bought russian system didn't really had an alternative (price or political). Russia fell back because of corruption and a lack of challenge.

Apart from all of this militaries test their systems (if they are not corrupt to the core (russia)) under realistic scenarios or close to them the turkish army is not different. It usually takes 5 years for a new system to fully enter service siper made its first official test fire in 2021 and only fully entered service in 2025.

David sling for instance was the first terminal interceptor israel developed (as far as i now) and wasn't used in a conflict until 2023 that doesn't mean it didn't intercept ballistic missiles before

 

[Foinikas]

Soviet air defence systems weren't really trash though during most of the cold war. The technology discrepancy only started in the 80s and continued too this day because of corruption in russia, the ones that bought russian system didn't really had an alternative (price or political). Russia fell back because of corruption and a lack of challenge.

They had produced a vast number of systems,well definitely some of them were so and so,others trash,others great for the time. That's my point,even if it was trash,it would sell. And not just AA systems,for example vehicles. BTR-60s,BTR-70s,BMP-1s etc.

David sling for instance was the first terminal interceptor israel developed (as far as i now) and wasn't used in a conflict until 2023 that doesn't mean it didn't intercept ballistic missiles before

Let's not forget how the Patriot was more or less a failure when it first came out and was used in the 1991 Gulf War.

 

[Sinan]

Isn't this a bit contradictory? A full-scale war is actually a situation where Turkey would deploy a multi-layered, integrated defense system. Sure, we're still figuring things out, but remember, we were also newcomers in drones, missiles, radars, and a bunch of other systems just 15 to 20 years back.

Our systems haven't been put to the test in a direct state-to-state conflict, but if we look at it objectively, even Iran's outdated and inadequate defense systems, which have gaps in coverage, managed to deter Israel and the world's strongest military (US).

They opted for stand-off missiles for a reason.

So far, I'm happy with how our air defense systems are progressing, but we definitely need better coverage and even more advanced missiles. I believe radar technology isn't the issue in our case but correct me if I'm wrong.

No, don't get me wrong. We don't have a issue. Everything is progressing normally. Just saying experience in actual conflict enables to further develop your weapon with feedbacks. That's why we are currently leader in the drone technology.

Also, Iran's balistic missile hits a bit exaggerated imo. Like Israel's critical sites remain untouched. They hit a house and say there were mossad operatives inside. They hit ashop, say Israel was storing weaponary inside.

However, their airforce and navy got destroyed. Every critical military installation got destroyed.

 

[Foinikas]

However, their airforce and navy got destroyed. Every critical military installation got destroyed.

You mean Iran,right? I'm confused