Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions
- Thread starter MMM-E
- Start date
MMM-E
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #962
TUSAŞ General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
ANKA-3 attracted attention with its tailless design.
The design was updated with data obtained from tests, critical design work was completed, and production began.
Two more prototypes will be produced this year, and mass production efforts have also started.
We are currently using Ukrainian engines and so far we are not experiencing any problems. They were able to produce and supply engines to us even during wartime.
The priority is the Turkish Air Force. More than 50 orders are expected this year.
ANKA-3 attracted attention with its tailless design.
The design was updated with data obtained from tests, critical design work was completed, and production began.
Two more prototypes will be produced this year, and mass production efforts have also started.
We are currently using Ukrainian engines and so far we are not experiencing any problems. They were able to produce and supply engines to us even during wartime.
The priority is the Turkish Air Force. More than 50 orders are expected this year.
falcon34
Registered Member
Anka achieved internal weapons bay test earlier than Kizelilma wonder why, the program for KZ was started before anka 3.
Anyways Turks have some good tech up their sleeves the 30s will be there's
@AeronautIR
Can anka or KZs replace Mirages and F7 in pak inventory or they don't fit the roles of the jets?.
MMM-E
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #964
Oman fades out, Qatar fades in with 12 more Eurofighters
Türkiye was expected to acquire 12 Eurofighters from Qatar for delivery in 2026, followed by modernised aircraft sourced from Oman for delivery in 2028, and brand-new production aircraft delivered via the United Kingdom from 2030 onwards
TurDef learned that Oman, which previously approached Türkiye with proposals centred on transferring aircraft, has hardened its negotiating position as talks appeared to become more concrete.
Qatar originally decided in 2017 to procure 24 Tranche 3A Typhoons through a structure widely reported as 12 firm Aircraft and 12 options.
Turkiye consider options of purchasing an additional 12 Eurofighter T3A from Qatar instead of Oman.
Oman fades out, Qatar fades in with 12 more Eurofighters | TURDEF
Türkiye’s Eurofighter Typhoon sourcing plan may shift from Oman to Qatar, as Ankara weighs 12 additional Tranche 3A aircraft to avoid radar modernisation.
turdef.com
hyperman
INT'L MOD
Oman fades out, Qatar fades in with 12 more Eurofighters
Türkiye was expected to acquire 12 Eurofighters from Qatar for delivery in 2026, followed by modernised aircraft sourced from Oman for delivery in 2028, and brand-new production aircraft delivered via the United Kingdom from 2030 onwards
TurDef learned that Oman, which previously approached Türkiye with proposals centred on transferring aircraft, has hardened its negotiating position as talks appeared to become more concrete.
Qatar originally decided in 2017 to procure 24 Tranche 3A Typhoons through a structure widely reported as 12 firm Aircraft and 12 options.
Turkiye consider options of purchasing an additional 12 Eurofighter T3A from Qatar instead of Oman.
View attachment 174285
Oman fades out, Qatar fades in with 12 more Eurofighters | TURDEF
Türkiye’s Eurofighter Typhoon sourcing plan may shift from Oman to Qatar, as Ankara weighs 12 additional Tranche 3A aircraft to avoid radar modernisation.
This is better, the Qatar jets are newer and more Upgraded than Oman's. This is Oman's loss if they are really digging in on the price, instead of being reasonable.
God bless Qatar. Good friends indeed, willing to transfer their whole fleet and even give their place in the Queue for the new jets.
AeronautIR
HemlockKhalid
Mirage and F-7 are now obsolete in a contestested airspace. These stealth jet drones are the future. They can be used in M-UMT loyal wingman role or automonous mode. We may see PAF acquiring them after thay are completely operational in TuAF.
MMM-E
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #967
Retired Greek Air Force Major General Athanasios Papanikola:
The Turks have succeeded in developing KIZILELMA. It carries a 1.5-ton payload consisting of ammunition, AESA Radar, and defense systems.
What the public needs to understand is that Türkiye has made great progress in various defense platforms.
Even though we are behind Turkiye we are striving to partner with the Israelis, who are extremely advanced in this technology, to close the gap with them.
This gives us an advantage because Israel also has similar fears about the Turks. Because they are also a target of the Turks
1 -- Israel doesnt have this technology ( unmanned stealth Fighter Jet )
2 -- KIZILELMA has advantage in BVR combat against 4,5th gen Figher Jets
KIZILELMA vs F-16V in BVR Combat
In pure 1-vs-1 BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat, a Turkish Bayraktar Kızılelma has a realistic chance to beat a Greek F-16V Viper — and in many realistic scenarios it could even have the advantage — but it's not a guaranteed win for either side. The outcome depends heavily on tactics, numbers, supporting assets, electronic warfare, missile quality, launch conditions, and pilot (or operator) skill.Here's a breakdown based on known specs and demonstrated capabilities as of early 2026:Key Comparison Table
Who Wins in BVR — Realistic Scenarios
---------------------------------------------------------
In a real Aegean scenario, quantity + integration + risk tolerance would likely favor Turkey's side more than pure 1v1 platform comparison suggests.
So yes — Kızılelma can beat F-16V in BVR, and in many plausible setups it would
The Turks have succeeded in developing KIZILELMA. It carries a 1.5-ton payload consisting of ammunition, AESA Radar, and defense systems.What the public needs to understand is that Türkiye has made great progress in various defense platforms.Even though we are behind Turkiye we are striving to partner with the Israelis, who are extremely advanced in this technology, to close the gap with them.This gives us an advantage because Israel also has similar fears about the Turks. Because they are also a target of the Turks1 -- Israel doesnt have this technology ( unmanned stealth Fighter Jet )
2 -- KIZILELMA has advantage in BVR combat against 4,5th gen Figher Jets
KIZILELMA vs F-16V in BVR Combat
In pure 1-vs-1 BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat, a Turkish Bayraktar Kızılelma has a realistic chance to beat a Greek F-16V Viper — and in many realistic scenarios it could even have the advantage — but it's not a guaranteed win for either side. The outcome depends heavily on tactics, numbers, supporting assets, electronic warfare, missile quality, launch conditions, and pilot (or operator) skill.Here's a breakdown based on known specs and demonstrated capabilities as of early 2026:Key Comparison Table
| Aspect | Bayraktar Kızılelma (current / near-term) | Greek F-16V (Block 70 Viper) | Edge? |
|---|---|---|---|
| Platform type | Unmanned (loyal wingman / autonomous-capable UCAV) | Manned fighter | — (different strengths) |
| Radar | Aselsan MURAD AESA (GaN-based) ≈ 250–300 km detection claimed, 120+ km tracking | Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 SABR AESA (very mature) | Roughly comparable (detection likely similar vs non-stealth targets) |
| RCS (stealth signature) | Low-observable design (smaller + shaping) | Conventional (higher RCS than Kızılelma) | Kızılelma |
| Max speed | Subsonic now (Mach ~0.9), supersonic variants planned | Mach 2+ | F-16V (kinematics) |
| Service ceiling | ~35,000 ft | ~50,000+ ft | F-16V |
| Main BVR missile | Gökdoğan (indigenous AMRAAM-class, active radar, 65+ km baseline, 100–180+ km variants possible) | AIM-120C/D AMRAAM (D variant up to ~160–180 km in good conditions) | Roughly comparable (both solid modern active radar missiles) |
| Missile carriage | External (wing stations) → hurts stealth when loaded | External (but more stations + higher energy launch) | F-16V (more flexibility) |
| Situational awareness | AESA + IRST (KARAT) + EOTS, datalink to AWACS/other assets | AESA + Link-16 + HMD + pods, human pilot | F-16V (human + mature NATO integration) |
| Cost / risk | Much cheaper, zero pilot risk | Expensive, pilot at risk | Kızılelma (attritable) |
| Demonstrated BVR | Live Gökdoğan kill vs jet target drone (2025), simulated F-16 lock at ~48 km | Operational AIM-120 launches (real combat proven) | Kızılelma has newer public BVR demos |
Who Wins in BVR — Realistic Scenarios
- Head-on, neutral merge, single missile exchange (clean config)
→ Kızılelma has a meaningful edge
Lower RCS + good AESA means it can often detect and shoot first (especially if Gökdoğan performs near its advertised range). The F-16V sees the Kızılelma later → missile launch advantage to the drone in many geometries. - With datalink / AWACS support
→ Either can dominate
Both platforms shine when fed offboard targeting. Turkey's growing MUM-T (manned-unmanned teaming) with F-16s + Kızılelma swarms could overwhelm. Greece's mature NATO Link-16 integration is excellent too. - Realistic squadron-level fight
→ Kızılelma likely wins through numbers / attrition
Kızılelma is cheaper and attritable. Turkey can produce/operate many more than Greece can replace F-16Vs. Losing 5–10 Kızılelma hurts less than losing one F-16V + pilot
---------------------------------------------------------
In a real Aegean scenario, quantity + integration + risk tolerance would likely favor Turkey's side more than pure 1v1 platform comparison suggests.
So yes — Kızılelma can beat F-16V in BVR, and in many plausible setups it would
BonPlan
Registered Member
Qatar only decided to sell the less potent of the 3 fighters purchased these last years.
BonPlan
Registered Member
Retired Greek Air Force Major General Athanasios Papanikola:
1 -- Israel doesnt have this technology ( unmanned stealth Fighter Jet )
2 -- KIZILELMA has advantage in BVR combat against 4,5th gen Figher Jets
KIZILELMA vs F-16V in BVR Combat
In pure 1-vs-1 BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat, a Turkish Bayraktar Kızılelma has a realistic chance to beat a Greek F-16V Viper — and in many realistic scenarios it could even have the advantage — but it's not a guaranteed win for either side. The outcome depends heavily on tactics, numbers, supporting assets, electronic warfare, missile quality, launch conditions, and pilot (or operator) skill.Here's a breakdown based on known specs and demonstrated capabilities as of early 2026:Key Comparison Table
Aspect Bayraktar Kızılelma (current / near-term) Greek F-16V (Block 70 Viper) Edge? Platform type Unmanned (loyal wingman / autonomous-capable UCAV) Manned fighter — (different strengths) Radar Aselsan MURAD AESA (GaN-based) ≈ 250–300 km detection claimed, 120+ km tracking Northrop Grumman AN/APG-83 SABR AESA (very mature) Roughly comparable (detection likely similar vs non-stealth targets) RCS (stealth signature) Low-observable design (smaller + shaping) Conventional (higher RCS than Kızılelma) Kızılelma Max speed Subsonic now (Mach ~0.9), supersonic variants planned Mach 2+ F-16V (kinematics) Service ceiling ~35,000 ft ~50,000+ ft F-16V Main BVR missile Gökdoğan (indigenous AMRAAM-class, active radar, 65+ km baseline, 100–180+ km variants possible) AIM-120C/D AMRAAM (D variant up to ~160–180 km in good conditions) Roughly comparable (both solid modern active radar missiles) Missile carriage External (wing stations) → hurts stealth when loaded External (but more stations + higher energy launch) F-16V (more flexibility) Situational awareness AESA + IRST (KARAT) + EOTS, datalink to AWACS/other assets AESA + Link-16 + HMD + pods, human pilot F-16V (human + mature NATO integration) Cost / risk Much cheaper, zero pilot risk Expensive, pilot at risk Kızılelma (attritable) Demonstrated BVR Live Gökdoğan kill vs jet target drone (2025), simulated F-16 lock at ~48 km Operational AIM-120 launches (real combat proven) Kızılelma has newer public BVR demos
Who Wins in BVR — Realistic Scenarios
- Head-on, neutral merge, single missile exchange (clean config)
→ Kızılelma has a meaningful edge
Lower RCS + good AESA means it can often detect and shoot first (especially if Gökdoğan performs near its advertised range). The F-16V sees the Kızılelma later → missile launch advantage to the drone in many geometries.- With datalink / AWACS support
→ Either can dominate
Both platforms shine when fed offboard targeting. Turkey's growing MUM-T (manned-unmanned teaming) with F-16s + Kızılelma swarms could overwhelm. Greece's mature NATO Link-16 integration is excellent too.- Realistic squadron-level fight
→ Kızılelma likely wins through numbers / attrition
Kızılelma is cheaper and attritable. Turkey can produce/operate many more than Greece can replace F-16Vs. Losing 5–10 Kızılelma hurts less than losing one F-16V + pilot
---------------------------------------------------------
In a real Aegean scenario, quantity + integration + risk tolerance would likely favor Turkey's side more than pure 1v1 platform comparison suggests.
So yes — Kızılelma can beat F-16V in BVR, and in many plausible setups it would
View attachment 174804
True
It's quite impressive.
Foinikas
Elite Member
It will be even more impressive the first time it's shot down.
hyperman
INT'L MOD
The Qatar jets are of the latest Tranche and not 3 but 12 jets and potentially more.
MMM-E
Elite Member
- Thread starter
- #975
No problem Turkiye can build more KIZILELMA for more cheaper prices
but Greece can not buy more RAFALES-F-16V for billions of Dollars
We can build 7 KIZILELMA in price of 1 RAFALE
even if we lost 3 - 4 KIZILELMA to hunt 1 RAFALE , that will not hurt Turkiye
on the other hand , if Greece lose dozens of RAFALES and F-16V then this will hurt Greece
Btw , Since there won't be any dogfights, KIZILELMA will have a huge advantage. in BVR combat
7 KIZILELMA with 28 GOKBORA/GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles to have capability to shoot down 24 RAFALEs .... thanks to first look , first fire , first kill capability
Users who are viewing this thread
Pakistan Defence Latest
Country Watch Latest
-
-
-
How India’s New Nuclear Submarine Base Challenges China’s Naval Plans | WSJ (4 Viewers)- Latest: kimjongun
-
-
