Indos
INT'L MOD
Actually there is interview and Indonesian Aerospace CEO saying about Indonesian aerospace selling its engineering capabilities for Kaan project. I will post it later, I have posted in old forum. It is in Metro TV
Turkish Defence Industry - Exports & News
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Indos
INT'L MOD
Indonesia participating in Kaan project I would say will not likely effect KF21/IFX program. It can complement with current KF21/IFX program. The one that could potentially become victims are F15 EX acquisition
As Indonesia has big territory, so naturally we need heavy fighters that currently is served with Su27/30, so Kaan program if it is true Indonesia will participate, so it will fulfill the need on this heavy fighter type
Indonesia government has already put money for KF21/IFX payment for 2025. I have put the document in last page of IFX thread
As Indonesia has big territory, so naturally we need heavy fighters that currently is served with Su27/30, so Kaan program if it is true Indonesia will participate, so it will fulfill the need on this heavy fighter type
Indonesia government has already put money for KF21/IFX payment for 2025. I have put the document in last page of IFX thread
Last edited:
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
If you look at Indonesia's collaboration history with Korea on the KF21 programme, I am not sure it is much value add to the programme. Constant delays in funding/financing of everything all the time. Lets see what Indonesia is "signing" up for. Even their procurement volumes are very low.
I am hopeful for the best, that they will add uninterrupted value to the Kaan programme, hopefully they can be a good partner.
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hyperman
INT'L MOD
There is no need for Indonesian money for development, like with the Korean collaboration, the plane is already being fully developed by Turkey independently. Maybe with some local production and maintenance of the jet, some things can be transferred to Indonesia for local production and maintenance. Depending on how many Indonesia wants to order.
I honestly think this could be the beginning of deeper collaboration. Indonesia has significant potential in the development of transport aircraft, Turkey has the technical capability, but Turkey can't do it alone as its too expensive, but with Indonesia and possibly Saudi, its possible. Indonesia has significant experience developing the N-245, and Saudi has significant money.
A C-17/A-400 like Strategic Airlift aircraft in a consortium, using Rolls Royce Trent engines. There is a significant market for it, considering the C-17 is out of production, the Il-76 production has collapsed with the Russian war, Ukraine's Antanov is in shambles. Really the Y-20B is the only aircraft on the market other than the A-400, everything else is a medium and light transport, not strategic airlift.
Indos
INT'L MOD
South Korea is not having too much difficulty on money actually and Indonesia keeps sending its engineers until the design is completed. Particularly detail design needs huge design engineers
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"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.
As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.
Last month, DAPA confirmed that the design for the combat jet met all military requirements, allowing the project to go on to the next phase of constructing a prototype.
The prototype will be ready in the first half of 2021, and the agency is eyeing 2026 for the completion of development, which began in 2016, according to DAPA.
Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency
SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...
Oublious
Registered Member
South Korea is not having too much difficulty on money actually and Indonesia keeps sending its engineers until the design is completed. Particularly detail design needs huge design engineers
---------------------
"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.
As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.
Last month, DAPA confirmed that the design for the combat jet met all military requirements, allowing the project to go on to the next phase of constructing a prototype.
The prototype will be ready in the first half of 2021, and the agency is eyeing 2026 for the completion of development, which began in 2016, according to DAPA.
Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project | Yonhap News Agency
SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint p...en.yna.co.kr
How does it work? I mean you sending your engineers to Korea, engineering skills and data you don't have it, what does Indonesia to learn from this project other then acquaring next gen fighter?
It is build in Korea and engineered in Korea, looks more a expensive excursion for Indonesian engineers to Korea.
Indos
INT'L MOD
I dont need to talk too much
Just listen to KAI CEO
------------------
Korean Aerospace CEO latest Interview
----------------------
Before the start of mass production of the KF-21, KAI was plagued by allegations of leaking secrets from researchers in Indonesia, the country that co-developed the KF-21.
"I should have managed those researchers better, but I apologize to the government and the people for the gaps. First of all, we checked at our level and there were no major problems. It was a collection of information that we provided at meetings and other meetings. The investigation is ongoing, so it is impossible to say what the outcome will be. However, as Indonesia is an important strategic partner for us, it is a burden for it to turn into a diplomatic issue. Indonesia purchased the KT-1 in 2001 and was the first exporter of the Korean aircraft. Later, the T-50 was also purchased. The development of the KF-21 could have been stalled if Indonesia had not participated. Indonesia has made a significant contribution to the development of Korea's aerospace industry. If Indonesia buys South Korean weapons, the impact will affect the entire Southeast Asian country. I hope that we can take these things into consideration and come to a victorious conclusion."
― Indonesia said it would not pay 1 trillion won out of the 1.6 trillion won allocated for the development of the KF-21, leaving the government and KAI to bear the shortfall of 1 trillion won.
"In the process of developing the KF-21, efforts were made to reduce costs. If R&D proceeds smoothly as it is now, it is expected that the cost will be reduced by 500 billion ~ 600 billion won. Still, it's a very heavy amount, but we have no choice but to go in the direction of sharing it between the government and KAI."
― Many point out that instead of Indonesia, which has repeatedly caused the problem of non-payment of development costs, joint development should be carried out with countries with strong financial capabilities, such as the Middle East.
"The development of the first phase (of air-to-air armament) is almost complete. The second stage is to add armaments such as air-to-ground, so development is relatively simple and development costs are not high. Involving other countries in the development of the second phase raises very complex issues, such as the exposure of the technology in the first phase. From the third stage of development, it is planned to go to a manned and unmanned complex system, which will cost a lot of money. From the third stage, I think it would be good to develop it with countries that are rich in both money and technology."
“KF-21은 AI기술 등 집약… 동남아 넘어 유럽도 관심”
“KF-21을 4.5세대 전투기라고 하는데, 과소평가라고 생각합니다. 4.5세대 프랑스 라팔, 유럽 유로파이터 타이푼 등과 비교하면 성능이 뛰어나거든요. 그래서 저는 5세대(완전한 스텔스 기능을 갖춘 전투기)에 가까운 4.9세대 전투기라고 부릅니다. 게다가 가격까지 …
www.donga.com
hodor
Registered Member
No production in Indonesia in this partnership? Is your only know-how 115 engineers working in Korea?I dont need to talk too much
Just listen to KAI CEO
------------------
Korean Aerospace CEO latest Interview
----------------------
Before the start of mass production of the KF-21, KAI was plagued by allegations of leaking secrets from researchers in Indonesia, the country that co-developed the KF-21.
"I should have managed those researchers better, but I apologize to the government and the people for the gaps. First of all, we checked at our level and there were no major problems. It was a collection of information that we provided at meetings and other meetings. The investigation is ongoing, so it is impossible to say what the outcome will be. However, as Indonesia is an important strategic partner for us, it is a burden for it to turn into a diplomatic issue. Indonesia purchased the KT-1 in 2001 and was the first exporter of the Korean aircraft. Later, the T-50 was also purchased. The development of the KF-21 could have been stalled if Indonesia had not participated. Indonesia has made a significant contribution to the development of Korea's aerospace industry. If Indonesia buys South Korean weapons, the impact will affect the entire Southeast Asian country. I hope that we can take these things into consideration and come to a victorious conclusion."
― Indonesia said it would not pay 1 trillion won out of the 1.6 trillion won allocated for the development of the KF-21, leaving the government and KAI to bear the shortfall of 1 trillion won.
"In the process of developing the KF-21, efforts were made to reduce costs. If R&D proceeds smoothly as it is now, it is expected that the cost will be reduced by 500 billion ~ 600 billion won. Still, it's a very heavy amount, but we have no choice but to go in the direction of sharing it between the government and KAI."
― Many point out that instead of Indonesia, which has repeatedly caused the problem of non-payment of development costs, joint development should be carried out with countries with strong financial capabilities, such as the Middle East.
"The development of the first phase (of air-to-air armament) is almost complete. The second stage is to add armaments such as air-to-ground, so development is relatively simple and development costs are not high. Involving other countries in the development of the second phase raises very complex issues, such as the exposure of the technology in the first phase. From the third stage of development, it is planned to go to a manned and unmanned complex system, which will cost a lot of money. From the third stage, I think it would be good to develop it with countries that are rich in both money and technology."
“KF-21은 AI기술 등 집약… 동남아 넘어 유럽도 관심”
“KF-21을 4.5세대 전투기라고 하는데, 과소평가라고 생각합니다. 4.5세대 프랑스 라팔, 유럽 유로파이터 타이푼 등과 비교하면 성능이 뛰어나거든요. 그래서 저는 5세대(완전한 스텔스 기능을 갖춘 전투기)에 가까운 4.9세대 전투기라고 부릅니다. 게다가 가격까지 …www.donga.com
We would never have signed such a partnership in Turkey. We produced all of the F16s we bought from the US in Turkey. TEI also produced a significant part of the engines.
Indos
INT'L MOD
Of course there is production in Indonesia, even KF21 prototypes have some Indonesian made part. This is why you need to check and recheck the source and only use credible sources like what I posted in my IFX thread. I only use sources that is pretty credible both from Korea and Indonesia.
---------------------
-----------
Not only production, but Indonesia has the right to develop the plane independently, this is why based on the deal, Indonesia will get KF21 fifth prototype for local development, just like Indonesia has CN235 Flying Test Bed since 1980's until now as the plane keeps being developed
Oublious
Registered Member
This not a answer to my question, ther is a contribution off Indonesia but you are not able to answer my question. What kind gain did you in this project, the Engineerings data is in Korea with fabrication off the fighter. Article write about R&D, that is done in Korea againg. Indonesian gain is nothing more then some experiences in a project.I dont need to talk too much
Just listen to KAI CEO
------------------
Korean Aerospace CEO latest Interview
----------------------
Before the start of mass production of the KF-21, KAI was plagued by allegations of leaking secrets from researchers in Indonesia, the country that co-developed the KF-21.
"I should have managed those researchers better, but I apologize to the government and the people for the gaps. First of all, we checked at our level and there were no major problems. It was a collection of information that we provided at meetings and other meetings. The investigation is ongoing, so it is impossible to say what the outcome will be. However, as Indonesia is an important strategic partner for us, it is a burden for it to turn into a diplomatic issue. Indonesia purchased the KT-1 in 2001 and was the first exporter of the Korean aircraft. Later, the T-50 was also purchased. The development of the KF-21 could have been stalled if Indonesia had not participated. Indonesia has made a significant contribution to the development of Korea's aerospace industry. If Indonesia buys South Korean weapons, the impact will affect the entire Southeast Asian country. I hope that we can take these things into consideration and come to a victorious conclusion."
― Indonesia said it would not pay 1 trillion won out of the 1.6 trillion won allocated for the development of the KF-21, leaving the government and KAI to bear the shortfall of 1 trillion won.
"In the process of developing the KF-21, efforts were made to reduce costs. If R&D proceeds smoothly as it is now, it is expected that the cost will be reduced by 500 billion ~ 600 billion won. Still, it's a very heavy amount, but we have no choice but to go in the direction of sharing it between the government and KAI."
― Many point out that instead of Indonesia, which has repeatedly caused the problem of non-payment of development costs, joint development should be carried out with countries with strong financial capabilities, such as the Middle East.
"The development of the first phase (of air-to-air armament) is almost complete. The second stage is to add armaments such as air-to-ground, so development is relatively simple and development costs are not high. Involving other countries in the development of the second phase raises very complex issues, such as the exposure of the technology in the first phase. From the third stage of development, it is planned to go to a manned and unmanned complex system, which will cost a lot of money. From the third stage, I think it would be good to develop it with countries that are rich in both money and technology."
“KF-21은 AI기술 등 집약… 동남아 넘어 유럽도 관심”
“KF-21을 4.5세대 전투기라고 하는데, 과소평가라고 생각합니다. 4.5세대 프랑스 라팔, 유럽 유로파이터 타이푼 등과 비교하면 성능이 뛰어나거든요. 그래서 저는 5세대(완전한 스텔스 기능을 갖춘 전투기)에 가까운 4.9세대 전투기라고 부릅니다. 게다가 가격까지 …www.donga.com
Indos
INT'L MOD
Based on the deal, all of necessary data will be given to Indonesia after the plane gets type certificate in 2026, including testing data, inshaAllah
How the plane get manufactured if there is no engineering data ? How IFX can be developed if they dont give data that is essential for plane development ?
I follow the development since 2009 when Korea delegation came to Indonesia asking Indonesia participation, so I am pretty knowledgeable on this program including having connection to senior engineer in KF21/IFX program.
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hyperman
INT'L MOD
Did South Korea deliver a Kf-21 prototype to Indonesia yet? or is testing still in Korea?
Indos
INT'L MOD
Under previous deal, KF21 fifth prototype should be manufactured in Indonesia, just like how CN235 being developed, one prototype manufactured in Spain, one prototype manufactured in Indonesia = 2 prototype = 50:50 while 20 % stake in KF21 programs means only one prototype being manufactured in Indonesia while 5 prototypes manufactured in Korea. (6 flying prototypes, 2 static prototypes).
But due to financing problem from Indonesia side, including the IFX manufacturing line is not yet completed, all of prototypes are built in Korea including the testing work
If Indonesia completed financial investment in 2026 along with completion of KF21 development block 1 then the data and KF21 prototype (5th) will be given to Indonesia based on the deal between 2 countries. If data is given before completion of program and Indonesia cost share, it is pretty unlogical right ?
hyperman
INT'L MOD
I thought the Koreans would build the prototype in Korea and send it over to Indonesia for testing?
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