Turkish Naval Programs

[Foinikas]

B/c Turks has territorial claims in Cyprus, specfically in Northern Cyprus. Its not a Greek island.

I explained in the next post,the reply to MMM-E with the two points

 

[MMM-E]

FOINIKAS still telling fairly tales ... Greece is nothing in front of Turkiye
yesterday - today - tomorrow

İn 1996 Turkiye had almost nothing except F-16 Fighter Jets and Frigates
still Turkiye gave a military lesson to Greece


Now Turkiye has great Missile fire power with BORA , TAYFUN , CENK Ballistic Missiles. SOM , CAKIR , ATMACA , GEZGIN , IHA-230 , 300-ER , TOLUN-IIR , KUZGUN-TJ , KEMANKES , SUPER LIGHTNING Cruise Missiles / long range Guided Munitions

Now Turkiye has great UCAV fleet with TB-2 , TB-3 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and AKINCI ... also KIZILELMA and ANKA-3/4 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets on the way

Now Turkiye has its own Air Defense Umbrella with KORKUT , SUNGUR , GURZ , GOKDEMIR , HISAR and SIPER ..... Also S-400 AD Systems in inventory with 192 Missiles

Now Turkiye has 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC with 600 km AESA Radar .... also Turkiye has developed its own 700+ km ERALP early warning AESA Radar

Now Turkiye has great Electronic Warfare Systems with KORAL-200 , VURAL , GERGEDAN 3-U , ANTIDOT 2-U , MEHPOD , MİLKAR-3A3 , ERDERJA , NAZAR , ILGAR ..... also ASOJ-234U and 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircraft on the way

Now Turkiye produce its own FAC , OPV , Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer , Submarine even Aircraft Carrier

and 1.000+ Turkish military projects


Turkish Defense Industry was become a giant war machine in the region and reached such a power that no one could set their sights on Turkish interests in N.Cyprus , Syria , Iraq , Azerbaijan , Libya , Eastern Mediterranean

 

[Ak01]

FOINIKAS still telling fairly tales ... Greece is nothing in front of Turkiye
yesterday - today - tomorrow

İn 1996 Turkiye had almost nothing except F-16 Fighter Jets and Frigates


Now Turkiye has great Missile fire power with BORA , TAYFUN , CENK Ballistic Missiles. SOM , CAKIR , ATMACA , GEZGIN , IHA-230 , 300-ER , TOLUN-IIR , KUZGUN-TJ , KEMANKES , SUPER LIGHTNING Cruise Missiles / long range Guided Munitions

Now Turkiye has great UCAV fleet with TB-2 , TB-3 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and AKINCI ... also KIZILELMA and ANKA-3/4 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets on the way

Now Turkiye has its own Air Defense Umbrella with KORKUT , SUNGUR , GURZ , GOKDEMIR , HISAR and SIPER ..... Also S-400 AD Systems in inventory with 192 Missiles

Now Turkiye has 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC with 600 km AESA Radar .... also Turkiye has developed its own 700+ km ERALP early warning AESA Radar

Now Turkiye produce its own FAC , OPV , Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer , Submarine even Aircraft Carrier

and 1.000+ Turkish military projects


Turkish Defense Industry was become a giant war machine in the region and reached such a power that no one could set their sights on Turkish interests in N.Cyprus , Syria , Iraq , Azerbaijan , Libya , Eastern Mediterranean

bro just shut up

 

[Foinikas]

Turkish Defense Industry was become a giant war machine in the region and reached such a power that no one could set their sights on Turkish interests in N.Cyprus , Syria , Iraq , Azerbaijan , Libya , Eastern Mediterranean

Building and losing confidence​

Having long backed the Syrian opposition to Bashar al-Assad, Turkey has very close ties to the new rulers in Damascus.

When Israel targeted several Syrian air bases in April that were about to be taken over by the Turkish military for training local forces and conducting operations against the Islamic State group, Ankara’s response was measured. Encouraged by the Americans, Turkey chose to engage with Israel and seek a middle ground.

The Israelis had two main concerns: if Turkey deployed sophisticated radar and air defences at the T4 air base, Israeli air operations - including strikes against Iran - would be exposed. They were also wary of Turkish air defence systems potentially deterring some of their air operations altogether.


To address these issues, Turkish officials included their Syrian counterparts in subsequent meetings in Baku. As a confidence-building measure, the Syrians agreed not to deploy military forces to certain areas in southern Syria.



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Ankara sought to demonstrate to Israel that it did not intend for Syria to become a threat to Israeli security.

Three months later, however, another crisis indicated that talks with Israel had not resolved the underlying disagreements over Syria.

After bloody clashes between Druze and Bedouin militias broke out on Sunday, the Syrian government deployed troops to Sweida at the request of local authorities, prompting Israel to launch severe strikes against the Syrian army.

As Syrian forces regained control over more territory in the province, Israeli jets continued attacking targets in Damascus, including the Syrian defence ministry and areas near the Presidential Palace.

The air strikes on the capital on Wednesday were particularly surprising, as they coincided with another meeting between Syrian and Israeli officials in Baku, following Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa’s visit to Azerbaijan over the weekend.


These Israeli attacks left Turkey in a difficult position, with little leverage beyond urging Washington to pressure Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu into accepting a ceasefire.


On Wednesday, Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan unexpectedly revealed that Turkey had conveyed its views and suggestions regarding the Sweida crisis to Israel through intelligence channels, but noted that a ceasefire would only be possible after US mediation.


His statement signalled that Ankara was still trying to engage Israel through direct channels rather than confront it.

Avoiding Iran's mistakes​

On social media, some called for Turkey to deploy its air defence systems to deter further Israeli strikes, while others argued Ankara should immediately take control of Syrian military bases to prevent more aggression.

Privately, Turkish officials told Middle East Eye they had no desire to risk a direct confrontation with Israel in Syria or turn it into another battleground, especially after 13 years of civil war.


They also worry that such tensions would poison the efforts to reconstruct Syria as a state and also concern international investors, as both Syria and Turkey try to attract foreign capital for their respective economies.

Even if Turkey wanted to rely on hard power, it faces significant limitations.


“For the Turkish army to ensure the security of Syrian airspace over Damascus, it would need air defence systems and aerial assets capable of the task,” said Yusuf Akbaba, a Turkish defence industry expert, in a now-deleted X post on Wednesday.


“With our current inventory, which is insufficient even for Turkey’s own protection, we cannot defend another country.”


He added that countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Qatar have much better inventories than Turkey in this regard.

Turkish air defences need modernising​

Turkey’s ageing F-16 fighter jet fleet still requires modernisation through pending deals, such as Ankara’s multibillion-dollar agreement with Washington and ongoing discussions over Eurofighter jets.


Although Ankara possesses nationally produced Hisar short- and medium-range air defence systems, their numbers are limited.


Turkish military planners even considered deploying Russian-made S-400 missiles to Syria, possibly at the T4 airbase, but Washington opposed the move.



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Despite repeated visits by Turkish military officials to Damascus, there is little enthusiasm for establishing Turkish bases in Syria.


The Turkish military, by tradition, is reluctant to set up bases deep in foreign soil, and after nearly a decade in Syria, there is little appetite for further adventurism.


More importantly, the Syrian government is also unable to sign the necessary treaties to formally invite Ankara, as Sharaa has yet to establish the interim parliament envisioned by the new Syrian temporary constitution. Parliamentary ratification is required for such agreements.


The prevailing view in Ankara is that diplomacy remains the best way to resolve the crisis with Israel, especially given that the Trump administration, Saudi Arabia and much of the Arab League support the new Syrian government.


“This is a very dangerous situation, not only for the region but also for Israel,” Fidan said on Wednesday.


“In other words, the international community - especially the United States, the European Union, and regional countries - must show some sensitivity and put a stop to Israel. Otherwise, it’s safe to say that undesirable consequences will emerge in the region.”

Turkey doesn't have many options against Israel in Syria

With limited hardware and risk-averse foreign policy, Ankara has limited leverage against Israeli air strikes on Syrian targets

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[MMM-E]

Turkiye won in Syria and Israel only can cry in USA but President TRUMP said that know your place BIBI ... Turkiye is not Iran

loser team still trying to make a fake victory from epic failure

Turkiye won in N.Cyprus , Syria , Iraq , Libya , Karabakh , Qatar , Somalia and Eastern Mediterranean


Turkiye has been patient for 12 years to win in Syria ..
and Turkiye will arm Syria with most modern weapons when all major Turkish military projects finished in the next 5-10 years

then.everybody will see what about Israel

 

[Foinikas]

Turkiye won in Syria and Israel only can cry

and Turkiye will arm Syria with most modern weapons when all major Turkish military projects finished in the next 5-10 years

then.everybody will see what about Israel

Oh you think there will be a Syria left in 5-10 years. Wait,what if Israel doesn't wait for 5-10 years and launches an attack on Turkey right now just like they did with Iran? What will your fleet do then?

 

[MMM-E]

Oh you think there will be a Syria left in 5-10 years. Wait,what if Israel doesn't wait for 5-10 years and launches an attack on Turkey right now just like they did with Iran? What will your fleet do then?

Israel can not do anysthing in Syria except using some proxies like Druze Forces or PKK-YPG terrorists and Turkish Armed Forces ready to wipe out PKK-YPG in Syria

Iran is far away from Syria but Turkiye share 911 km borderline with Syria
and Turkiye is not Iran

Turkiye never will allow Iran or Israel to destroy Syria's territorial integrity

 

[Foinikas]

Israel can not do anysthing in Syria except using some proxies like Druze Forces or PKK-YPG terrorists and Turkish Armed Forces ready to wipe out PKK-YPG in Syria

Apparently they can,because they've repeatedly bombed bases Turkey meant to use as training grounds for the new Syrian Army.

 

[Foinikas]

Turkiye never will allow Iran or Israel to destroy Syria's territorial integrity

And yet they are doing it.

 

[MMM-E]

Apparently they can,because they've repeatedly bombed bases Turkey meant to use as training grounds for the new Syrian Army.

There was not any Turkish Forces there ... Israel bombed empty bases

Israel has neither the strength nor the courage to conduct a ground operation in Syria to fight Turkiye ... and without ground operation nobody can win in Syria

Israel wants to create a buffer zone in near of Israeli-Syria borderline .. nothing else

sooner or later Turkiye will equipe Syria with most modern weapons to protect itself from enemies

Israel can not do anything without USA ... and President TRUMP said "be reasonable BIBI" Turkiye is not Iran


Türkiye's defense industry is rapidly advancing towards becoming the only power in the region, and very soon Israel will no longer even be a threat.

 

[WARSIDT]

How many Exocet Block 3c do you need to sink the Anadolu? Two? Maybe three at most?

Putting aside the fact that your inventory doesn't have the necessary missiles to saturate the İstif-class and TF-2000 destroyers in the TCG Anadolu's Task force, you don't even have a system capable of carrying them and firing enough missiles to saturate these defense systems. Don't criticize another country's navy when you don't even know your own.

If we assume that the 16 VLSs on the very simple İstif Class ships are quadpacks, we get 64 ESSM missiles.

 

[Foinikas]

There was not any Turkish Forces there ... Israel bombed empty bases

Israel has neither the strength nor the courage to conduct a ground operation in Syria to fight Turkiye ... and without ground operation nobody can win in Syria

But you WERE going to train Syrians there and you WERE going to have bases in other parts of Syria. And they bombed those places and you did nothing.

Israel wants to create a buffer zone in near of Israeli-Syria borderline .. nothing else

You just said "Turkiye never will allow Iran or Israel to destroy Syria's territorial integrity"

Doesn't that constitute a change in the territorial integrity? They're 19 km from Damascus. And they're trying to create a Druze territory.

So stop beating around the bush,you know Erdy is afraid to confront Netanyahu.

 

[MMM-E]

If we assume that the 16 VLSs on the very simple İstif Class ships are quadpacks, we get 64 ESSM missiles.

Hellenic Air Force has only 30 EXOCET anti-ship Missiles now

even modernized MEKO-200TN Frigates armed with 32 or 64 SAMs
and ESSM has capability to intercept even supersonic missiles like BRAHMOS

Turkish MIDLAS VLS will have quad pack capability soon , that means 8 ISTIF class Frigates with 16 cells MIDLAS VLS to carry 64 SAMs ( ESSM and HISAR-D )



TF-2000 class Destroyer will have 96 cells VLS with quad pack capability

1 TF-2000 Destroyer will be armed with total of 181 SAMs

96 cells VLS .. with quad pack capability
32 cells x 4 HISAR-D = 128 SAMs
32 cells x 1 SIPER = 32 SAMs
16 cells x 1 ATMACA = 16 anti-ship Missiles
16 cells x 1 GEZGIN = 16 land attack Cruise Missiles
( if needed more 64 HISAR-D SAMs instead of 16 GEZGIN land attack Cruise Missiles )

also 3 different AD Systems
1 x GOKDENIZ 35mm CIWS
1 x LEVENT or GOKSUR close in air defense system ( 21 missiles )
1 x NAZAR LASER - EW System

 

[Foinikas]

Putting aside the fact that your inventory doesn't have the necessary missiles to saturate the İstif-class and TF-2000 destroyers in the TCG Anadolu's Task force, you don't even have a system capable of carrying them and firing enough missiles to saturate these defense systems. Don't criticize another country's navy when you don't even know your own.

If we assume that the 16 VLSs on the very simple İstif Class ships are quadpacks, we get 64 ESSM missiles.

I'm criticizing MMM-E's ultranationalistic simple-minded unrealistic version of Turkey where everything is perfect. To a normal person and I have to assume that you're a normal person,I can say that our Navy has been left behind and although the ND government of 2019 made a good start in 2020-2021,they slowed down in 2022 and completely fucked it up from 2023 to now.

For example: We were supposed to buy 6 FREMM from France in 2009,the economic crisis started,the Germans said no,we had no money for a decade,most navy projects that were underway were slowly completed,the shipyards abandoned,the Armed Forces neglected etc.

In 2019-2020 we had the Navy ask for:

1. Four new frigates
2. Interim solution
3. Upgrade of the 4 MEKO 200HN frigates

The government granted 5,5 billion euros for that. However,that wasn't enough because the Navy had reached a point that we had to:

• Replace/retire the 9 Kortenaer frigates
• Replace/retire the 4 obsolete Type 209 submarines(specifically the Glavkos and Poseidon class)
• Maybe retire 5 or all 8 of the Combattante FAC

The MEKO upgrade itself turned into a joke as it was being cancelled again and again for years.

So we start with 3+1 FDI HN. We know we need new ships. They don't buy the option. They decide to buy the option after it expires. So we're talking about 4 FDI HN frigates with a proposal from the French for an additional 3 to be built in Greece.

Then come the Italians and offer us the FREMM Bergamini that will be retired when Italy starts receiving the FREMM EVO. For start,we want the first two and then possibly the next two. The Navy and government also finally decided to upgrade the MEKO. They also want to upgrade the 4 Type 214(Papanikolis class)submarines and the 7 Super Vita FAC.

Now,I don't know what they want to order,but they are asking for new submarines that will have the capability to carry cruise missiles.

As you can see,our Navy isn't in the best position,but the Turkish Navy too is also far from the superpower position MMM-E talks about. You only have 1 ISTIF class now and the TF-2000 will take some time to be built. As for the number of cells and all that,we'll see. There's a lot of boasting from the Turkish side,but unless you actually see it happening with full and functional cells,that's just big talk.

The problem is our dumb leaders wasted time here,not knowing if they want to buy corvettes as well or get free LCS from the Americans. Then they imagined Constellation frigates,then EPC corvettes in the far future,one day they want 32 Aster-30 on the FDI,the next day 24 Aster-30 and 8 MdCN.

Hopefully,the Navy leadership will pressure them to take serious measures. BUT we did get and are still getting Exocet Block 3c on the ships,not just "AM39 Exocet" that MMM-E talks about.

 

[WARSIDT]

And yet they are doing it.

Yes, they are taking as much land as their power allows, and only to the extent that it will not draw too much attention from the world, not just from us. They have always done this, even when Syria was still a functioning state. If Erdoğan were to send soldiers there and even a single one of our soldiers died, in domestic politics they would say, “Our soldiers are dying for Syrians again,” and this time he would not be able to recover from it. The problem is not about whether we have enough power. The fact that the military forces and war plans being discussed here are such far-fetched approaches is already an example of this because no matter how strong you are, if you cannot answer to your own people at home, you cannot do a damn thing. If they do not try to connect themselves with the YPG-controlled area, Türkiye cannot intervene, because Erdoğan and the state truly have no reason in hand, and they have reached a point where they can’t even produce a reason to do it.


Not every person in Türkiye is running through the streets shouting “Erdoğan, Erdoğan.” Logical thinkers understood Erdoğan’s Syria policies and his reasons for taking action. With operations like Euphrates, Olive Branch, and Spring Shield, we had reasons for those moves both abroad and domestically. And if Erdoğan cannot even explain to the people who voted for him the money we have spent on millions of Syrian refugees, he will never be able to explain going and defending their country with our own army.


And if our defense industry products were bad, the Turkish Armed Forces would not take them into their inventory. They are truly ruthless in this matter. Even if they do take them, they take very few, test them, and say “Fix this and that”—and they have done so.


Greece and Türkiye are not equal countries. No matter how many products Greece buys, opposite it is a country that produces every system. Greece buys 4 ships from another country, while the country opposite produces 8 ships and starts building another 4 at the same time. What can it do against that?


Even your own government is slowing down this pointless race now. In the news I come across, and even in the news on your side that has been translated into Turkish, the Greek government openly shows that it is now reluctant about this situation I’m describing. And this is logical and beneficial for the Greek people, because when Greece tries to compete with Türkiye, it either falls into the lap of another state or destroys its own economy.


Türkiye is now a defense industry heavyweight. In the beginning, this was, in many ways, a political move, mostly to gather votes. But the point it has reached now is so good that it is bringing billions of dollars into the country, adding prestige, strengthening our hand in diplomacy between countries, giving us freedom, and most importantly, creating thousands of jobs domestically. And I no longer say, as I once feared, that if Erdoğan leaves, all this will end because the opposition parties have seen this too and adopted it. Instead of saying “Erdoğan’s ship, Erdoğan’s plane,” they now say, “We will take these even further, we will allocate even larger budgets to TUSAŞ.” They even go and visit these companies.


Stop comparing Türkiye and Greece already. If you didn’t touch MMM-E, nobody would even say anything to you. In your own country’s forum space, he is sharing his own country’s systems. Or, in a place where Türkiye is being criticized, he shares a system that his own country PRODUCES and DEVELOPS. There is nothing bad about that. Given how many systems there are, his way of sharing is actually quite good; in PDF format and with explanations—if you sent what MMM-E wrote to an idiot, they would understand.