Türkiye's NATO membership | News & Developments

[MMM-E]

The slow moving drones won't work in actual war with advance adversary

AKINCI UCAVs to fire 500+ km 300-ER air launched Ballistic Misiles to hit AD Systems in Israel from safe distance

The slow moving drones won't work in actual war with advance adversary. High Supersonic missiles Or hypersonic ones would be needed and in great numbers. Long range aesa equipped air-air missiles would be needed.

KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets are coming with AESA Radar and 185+ km GOKBORA ramjet powered air to air Missile


TAYFUN Block4 and CENK are hypersonic MRBMs with speed of mach 7 to mach 10

 

[Pakistan First]

NATO is only hyper power in the World

I think you are living in some other universe? The golden age of NATO has long gone. United States is absolutely correct in its frustration about NATO and they are absolutely correct when they say NATO is nothing and a paper tiger without the US. NATO has micro militaries. Only the US and to some extent Turkey got sizeable military. Rest are using old age technologies, still living in sub-sonic era.

Lowest tech Chinese fighter jets absolutely owned Europe's best fighter jets, Rafales shotdown in real combat and Typhoons in combat exercises remain inferior. Chinese air air missiles are a generation ahead with aesa, mid course guidance and longest ranges with extreme speeds. and these are just their decades old tech. No NATO country comes close in technology against latest chinese tech. The leaked photos of massive 6th gen already flying is a marvel of engineering itself. Turkey and NATO are very late in hypersonic domain. There's a reason when Pak was getting corvettes from Turkey even then it didn't get Turkish weapons for a reason. The subsonic anti-ship missiles are a thing of a long gone past. Its using its own hi-super sonic missiles with precise targetting and long ranges. Same goes for submarine launched missiles. Same goes for air-air weapons. NATO is just ancient with micro militaries. China & US are the sole military super powers.

If I have to give score of military power out of 10.
China: 9
US: 9
NATO (all rest of countries joined): 1
Russia: 1

So NATO really doesn't matter. It can't make a difference. A thing of the past.

 

[MMM-E]

I think you are living in some other universe? The golden age of NATO has long gone.

NATO is still only hyper power in the World

Russian technology sucks in Ukraine
And China doesnt have advanced technologies to match with NATO


U.S. Air Force used simulation data from the Taiwan national electromagnetic compatibility Laboratory

The "frontline RCS" value for the J-20 fighter jet in the X-band 10 GHz as 0.05 m² [-13 dBsqm] ...... because of delta canards

F-22 and F-35 have much lower RCS than J-20
Even Turkish KAAN is coming with RCS of 0.01 and 0,003 m2

KAAN even with F-110 Engine has lower RCS than Russian SU-57


USA develops F-47 6th gen Fighter
The UK and Italy develops GCAP 6th gen Fighter
France has its own plan to develop 6th gen Fighter
Turkiye has started developing 6th gen Fighter through KAAN


F-16V , F-15EX , F-18F , RAFALE F-5 , Eurofighter T5 , GRIPEN-NG are modern 4,5th gen Fighters

Turkish KIZILELMA unmanned stealh Fighter Jet has lower RCS than Russian SU-35 and Chinese J-10C


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Russia has only 1 old Aircraft Carrier
And China will build 9 Aircraft Carriers until 2035

on the other hand , NATO has already 16 Aircraft Carriers
also Turkish MUGEM ( 300 m ) Aircrfat Carrier is under construction
also Italy , France and Spain will build new Aircraft Carriers

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if needed
USA , The UK , France , Sweden , Turkiye have capability to produce Fighter Jets

if needed
USA , The UK , France , Germany , Italy , Turkiye , Spain have capability to produce Warships ( Frigate-Destroyer ) and Submarines

NATO has great money ( $1,6 trillion defense budget )

China and Russia's combined defense budgets range from $450 to $530 billion annually.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey and NATO are very late in hypersonic domain.

USA has hypersonic Missiles including HGV
Turkiye has hypersonic Ballistic Missiles ( MRBMs )

Turkiye , France and The UK-Germany develops hypersonic Missiles with SCRAMJET

The subsonic anti-ship missiles are a thing of a long gone past.

Russia could not stop even Ukrainian subsonic anti-ship Missile
The Russian Navy Moskva Cruiser has sunk in 2022


USA , France and Turkiye have capabilities to produce Cruise Missiles with turbojet engine

also USA , France , Germany , Turkiye and The UK have capability to produce RAMJET for supersonic Missiles


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Russia and China have S400 , S500 , HQ-9 Air Defense Systems

NATO has American PATRIOT , French SAMP-T and Turkish SIPER-2 Air Defense Systems

Exoatmospheric Ballistic Missile Intereptors in NATO
USA : THAAD , SM-3 , GBI
Turkiye : SIPER-4 .. ( under development )
France-Italy : ASTER-30 Block-2 BMD .. ( under development )


With weapon systems whose development will be completed according to NATO's 2035 vision, NATO will continue to be the sole hyper power of the future.

 

[royalharris]

Without the United States, NATO is just a bunch of trash
Because ten pieces of trash put together are still just a pile of trash.

The NATO Secretary General knows this very well. That is also why he called Trump “Daddy.”

 

[MMM-E]

Without the United States, NATO is just a bunch of trash
Because ten pieces of trash put together are still just a pile of trash.

Maybe , China's or Russia's low quality weapon industry is a just bunch of trash

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Without USA , NATO is still a Power

The UK , France , Turkiye , Germany , Italy , Spain , Sweden have capability to produce

-- 4,5th , 5th and 6th gen Fighter Jets
-- Attack and Utility Helicopters
-- Transport Aircraft , AEWC , Stand off Jammer Aircraft , Air refueling Tanker
-- UCAVs and unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
-- Air Defense Systems
-- Supersonic and Hypersonic Missiles
-- Long range BVR air to air Missiles
-- SLBM with nuclear warheads
-- Aircraft Carrier
-- Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer
-- AIP and Nuclear Submarines
-- Everything

And over $600 billion defense budget .... ( without USA )

Europe - Turkiye have warrior nation and history
These countries have started most of the wars in history.

 

[Pakistan First]

Maybe , China's or Russia's low quality weapon industry is a just bunch of trash

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Without USA , NATO is still a Power

The UK , France , Turkiye , Germany , Italy , Spain , Sweden have capability to produce

-- 4,5th , 5th and 6th gen Fighter Jets
-- Attack and Utility Helicopters
-- Transport Aircraft , AEWC , Stand off Jammer Aircraft , Air refueling Tanker
-- UCAVs and unmanned stealth Fighter Jets
-- Air Defense Systems
-- Supersonic and Hypersonic Missiles
-- Long range BVR air to air Missiles
-- SLBM with nuclear warheads
-- Aircraft Carrier
-- Corvette , Frigate , Destroyer
-- AIP and Nuclear Submarines
-- Everything

And over $600 billion defense budget .... ( without USA )

Europe - Turkiye have warrior nation and history
These countries have started most of the wars in history.

Your biggest mistake is that you are using Russia as a benchmark against NATO. I already said Russia is nothing. Russia is just like NATO countries of EU.
Russia has some strengths like its massive nuclear stockpiles, nuclear submarines but lacks quality in conventional capabilities. if you keep comparing with Russia only then you are good. No need to worry.

You forgot to understand that China is prime focus and rival of United States for rest of this century. It is United States official stated objective "as biggest challenge of 21st century".

I give you one small example, China has a space station of its own. Entire NATO + US combine cannot achieve it.

Another example: China's ship building capability. China builds 70% of World's ships. China adds entire Royal UK navy into its fleet every 2 years. Yet you are comparing microscopic militaries of NATO with it lol?

As far as technology is concerned, Pakistan airforce has proven that China's military aviation is better then Europe's but there is a catch. It was China's lowest priced jet against Europe's most expensive ones.

If US and China fight a war, its like two bull Elephants fighting and NATO countries are like chickens. Their presence or no presence makes no difference at all.

 

[Pakistan First]

Without USA , NATO is still a Power

The UK , France , Turkiye , Germany , Italy , Spain , Sweden have capability to produce

-- 4,5th , 5th and 6th gen Fighter Jets

TOTAL LIE! False!

its 2026 and entire NATO (exclusing US) has never fielded a 5th gen fighter of its own (only fielded US made ones). Forget even about 6th gen. Those 6th gen are on drawing board, a fantasy ideas which are atleast 30 years away from reality. France and Germany officially terminated the joint Future Combat Air System (FCAS) on June 8 2026. So you microscopic NATO countries are 30 years away from 6th gen and we have already seen chinese 6th gen flying (the prototypes), its going to come online in service in few years.

Entire NATO (except US) has ZERO 5th gen of its own currently in service. China will have around 1000 5th gen fighters by 2030. It has around 500 right now.

Now let's come to Turkish 5th gen. Again it was impossible for Turkey without US engine. China is testing / flying its 6th gen with massive 3 engines of its own. Turkey is testing 5th gen with american engines. Feel the difference? To Turkey's credit, atleast its the only country other than US in NATO which is making 5th gen of its own but using american engines. Now you will say Turkey is also building its own engines. Well we will see if and when they come into service. Its going to take a long long time and still performance won't match the american counterparts.

 

[MMM-E]

Now let's come to Turkish 5th gen. Again it was impossible for Turkey without US engine. China is testing / flying its 6th gen with massive 3 engines of its own.

Its not a 6th gen Fighter with WS-10/15 Engine
China has no technology to develop a true 6th gen Fighter Jet with Variable-Cycle Engine

Ultimately, China has built an airframe that looks like a 6th gen Jet. However, whether the software, engines, and networking underneath meet that threshold remains an open question

and Chinese J-20 has bigger RCS to compare with F-22 , F-35 ... even KAAN

Entire NATO (except US) has ZERO 5th gen of its own currently in service. China will have around 1000 5th gen fighters by 2030. It has around 500 right now.

F-35 is a multi-national project
Turkiye was a global partner of the F-35 program

Turkiye's return to the F-35 program is still being discussed by official authorities


NATO allies are expected to have a total of approximately 1,800 F-35 Fighter Jets by 2030

And Turkiye , France , The UK develops their own stealth Fighter Jets

NATO is far ahead of China-Russia

 

[MMM-E]

As far as technology is concerned, Pakistan airforce has proven that China's military aviation is better then Europe's but there is a catch. It was China's lowest priced jet against Europe's most expensive ones.

Indian Air Force sucks

Give RAFALE or Eurofighter to the Turkish Air Force and see what will happen

RAFALE or Eurofighter with METEOR Missile + KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet + Boeing E-7T AEWC + ASOJ-23A stand off jammer Aircraft = end of J-10C

 

[Pakistan First]

@MMM-E

NATO won't even dream to dare do something against China when their daddy US is signing surrender document (MoU) with Iran.

The NATO daddy US got its bases destroyed by Iranian missiles, just imagine what would happen against generations ahead Chinese missiles. Also note, China has world's largest rocket force.

US based analysts themselves are acknowledging that Iran was a wake up call of US military hard power. They also realize if US faces such wrath from mere Iran then what chances do NATO have. BTW, I remember Iran did fired few missiles on NATO country Turkey too. NATO just chickened out. Also remember, its only Iran we are talking about. China is like hundreds of Iran put together with far more advance technology.

I acknowledge NATO was strong, powerful alliance once upon a time. That era has gone for good.

 

[royalharris]

China's steel production is about four times that of NATO, and its electricity consumption exceeds NATO's by roughly 30%. China accounts for around 70% of the world's shipbuilding capacity and also dominates the global rare earth supply chain. Without access to Chinese rare earths, NATO would face major challenges in producing new fighter jets and artillery shells.

Compared with China, NATO is in a highly constrained position, much like a snake with its neck pinned down.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

My friend, the main reason Pakistan achieved a complete victory is the technology of the Pakistan Air Force. The fact that the Chinese Air Force has conducted multiple joint exercises with Pakistan confirms this view, and the statement from Major General Aurangzeb Ahmed, Director of the Pakistan Air Force Public Relations Bureau, also supports this point. He said, "As you can see, I'm not saying the Rafale is a bad plane. In fact, the Rafale is a powerful fighter jet, and if used properly, it can achieve significant results. But this is how the Indian Air Force uses the Rafale."

China has once used outdated weapons to confront enemies armed with advanced weapons, including the US and the Soviet Union. We believe weapons are secondary; the tactics and willpower of the user are what's most important. Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps prove this point.

The US is accustomed to leading NATO in attacking other countries. There are two main reasons. First, to share casualties and unite Western consensus. Second, the US, France, and the UK are permanent members of the UN Security Council, and the allocation of non-permanent seats is unreasonable: Africa gets 3 seats, Asia-Pacific 2, Latin America and the Caribbean 2, Western Europe and others 2, and Eastern Europe 1. Within the NATO framework, the US can easily pass resolutions at the UN for legal strikes, or force China or Russia to use their veto, without affecting the US leading NATO to continue waging war. Examples include NATO bombing Yugoslavia, the Iraq War, and US and Israeli aggression toward Iran.

Your view is very correct. The US and other NATO countries do not officially have hypersonic missiles. Currently, the countries that officially have real hypersonic missiles are China, Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the Houthis in Yemen, and Belarus (for the Russian military). It has been confirmed that Pakistan and Serbia have obtained similar hypersonic weapons (conservatively estimated at Mach 2.5-4).

A true comparison needs to be determined through the facts of war. For now, it can be said that the US cannot defeat Iran. On May 31, 2024, China's Defense Minister Dong Jun held a 75-minute meeting with US Defense Secretary Austin at the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore to exchange views on the Taiwan Strait situation, South China Sea tensions, and the Ukraine crisis. The US side particularly emphasized the urgency of establishing a "military hotline," while China proposed that communication should be based on "mutual respect."

I need to emphasize that China will not become a world hegemon; multipolarity is the only direction. In Chinese culture and history, responsibility and power are highly unified. Rulers who enjoy power but do not fulfill responsibility have repeatedly been overthrown by the people, the most recent being the retreat of the Chinese Nationalists to Taiwan in 1949. If we count the number of uprisings against tyranny during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1912), there were 50-60 nationwide, and over a thousand local ones. The most significant was the Taiping Rebellion, which resulted in 70 to 100 million deaths. China believes it cannot bear the responsibility of human civilization alone; the responsibility for human civilization requires the joint efforts of all nations. So China will not pursue the status of world hegemony.

The way China plays a role can be confirmed through the news. In March 2023, China mediated between both sides' conflicts, helping Iran and Saudi Arabia reconcile. Iran and Saudi Arabia sent ambassadors to each other and set up a trilateral joint committee mechanism. In July 2024, China coordinated again, helping 14 Palestinian factions reach reconciliation. It was made clear that the Palestine Liberation Organization is the only legitimate government representing all Palestinian people, and a temporary national reconciliation government was established, with the ultimate goal of Palestinian independence. China was one of the first countries to recognize the Palestinian government. On November 15, 1988, the Palestinian National Council announced the establishment of the State of Palestine. Five days later, the Chinese government issued a statement officially recognizing the State of Palestine and establishing diplomatic relations.