US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

The air campaign has been dominant. They’ve achieved Desert Storm level of sorties with 200 fighters and 25-30 bombers. They’ve had huge success in hunting TELs. 11,000 targets hit with 11,000 sorties in a month of combat and not a single aircraft shot down by enemy fire other than a single F-35 damaged that made it back to base.

70% of Iranian missile/drone/naval production facilities destroyed was confirmed by ADM Cooper earlier this week.

The Iranians strategic position is significantly degraded which is confirmed by the US intelligence community. They’ve effectively lost this war, and US ground operations are imminent.

As for China, they’ve never fought a modern day war and Xi is busy purging nearly all of his top military leadership. They’re in no position to challenge the US and all they signal is weakness.
Pakistan could wage a similar Air campaign v a country with no airforce, no real air defences left, nothing to be chest thumping about.

70% Iranian production, stocks destroyed is BS.

Iran right now is winning your just delusional. They hold the Straits, all US bases destroyed in the region along with expensive Thaad radars. They are waiting for a ground operation to pile up US body bags to put real political pressure on trumpy.
 
... Iran is a well-developed country, they have never experienced strikes and destruction on that level before. The impact of that will become apparent in time. WE are not looking at a backward Afghanistan here where 90% population live in poverty. This war will affect Iranians at all levels as industries are being struck as well.
Exactly. Even if Iran survives, it'll be a devastated nation post war.

If the Iranians couldn't handle the economic hardship before the war, and thousands had to be killed by the Government to contain the protests, it's going to be much worse after the war ends.
 
Some Muslims are being coerced into supporting the religious fanatics of Iran - they think it's for the greater good.


Yes. People have very short memories. They've forgotten how the Iranian hyper-nationalists supported the barrel bombings of schools, hospitals, towns and villages in Syria for almost a decade.

15/04/2021: In Nine Years, the Syrian Regime Has Dropped Nearly 82,000 Barrel Bombs, Killing 11,087 Civilians, Including 1,821 Children: Relief Web

I don't know why Iranians thought tens of thousands of barrel bombing was a good thing to happen to Syrian children back then, but it's so bad that out of 11,000 US airstrikes on Iran, one has hit the school.
Perfectly well put, brother. We don't need to go this far even. On their very cesspool of a section (Iranian regime section of this very forum) they have been calling for the murder of civilians in the GCC, Iraq, Syria and elsewhere. Openly. I have never seen that occur from the Arab perspective in the GCC. That is despite the Iranian regime targeting civilian (utter failure for 99% of the time) targets in the GCC (small GCC states).

Which is strange as the US and Israel (let alone the GCC) has the capacity to kill 10.000 of Iranians civilians on a daily basis if that is what we wanted to do.

The same GCC still hosts around 500.000 Iranians.

It is a vile utterly failed regime that mass murders their own people at an alarming rate. Most recently in January where they murdered 1000's upon 1000's of their own people. Some estimates put up to 30.000 people as slaughtered by them.


The biggest victims have been Iranians themselves and Iran itself. That will remain the case until they are removed one way or another. Which I predict that they will be. In the not too distant future as well.

Another reminder, both KSA and Pakistan had much better relations with Iran prior to 1979. As had practically everyone else in the region as well.

But you know what I have long ago realized? The "support" (keyboard warriors behind their screens mostly based in the West - ironically) of the Iranian regime has much less to do with support for that particular regime itself or Iran but more to do with the illusion of the Iranian regime somehow being at the forefront and imaginary "war" against the West, Israel, Zionism, evil capitalists etc. and that they are somehow "winning" this imaginary war.

That is why you have millions of Western libtards salivating over this regime for the very same reason. Even though this regime (Iranian regime) goes against all of their supposed political beliefs.

The same reason why this little forum has hordes of Brazilians, Croatians, Mexicans, Nigerians, Bosnians and other nationalities (99.99% of people in those countries have no clue about Iran) as Iranian regime propagandists/bots (unless they are all false flaggers). It is the same psychology at play.
 
Last edited:
Exactly. Even if Iran survives, it'll be a devastated nation post war.

If the Iranians couldn't handle the economic hardship before the war, and thousands had to be killed by the Government to contain the protests, it's going to be much worse after the war ends.

Not really, if sanctions are lifted Iran can rebuild very quickly. Do not underestimate the hard work, ability and determination of Iranians. Look at what they are doing right now

Saudi and UAE are scared of any deal, as it will take things possibly back to the 70s where Iran was the regions power
 
Perfectly well put, brother. We don't need to go this far even. On their very cesspool of a section (Iranian regime section of this very forum) they have been calling for the murder of civilians in the GCC, Iraq, Syria and elsewhere. Openly. I have never seen that occur from the Arab perspective in the GCC. That is despite the Iranian regime targeting civilian (utter failure for 99% of the time) targets in the GCC (small GCC states).

Which is strange as the US and Israel (let alone the GCC) has the capacity to kill 10.000 of Iranians civilians on a daily basis if that is what we wanted to do.

The same GCC still hosts around 500.000 Iranians.

It is a vile utterly failed regime. The biggest victims have been Iranians themselves and Iran itself. That will remain the case until they are removed one way or another. Which I predict that they will be. In the not too distant future as well.

Yeah, well those with glass houses, your leader gets journalists chopped up in embassies
 
one has hit the school.

You one upped Arabia!

I just deleted my longer reply... suffice to say you're willfully ignorant but to those who have eyes 600 schools and educational institutions have been targeted including the top two engineering universities. Over 70,000 residential units have been damaged. Water desalination and power plants have been targeted as well as oil storage that caused the black rain over Tehran...

Run now...
 
Not really, if sanctions are lifted Iran can rebuild very quickly. Do not underestimate the hard work, ability and determination of Iranians. Look at what they are doing right now
Under what conditions will the sanctions be lifted?

... Saudi and UAE are scared of any deal, as it will take things possibly back to the 70s where Iran was the regions power
How do you come up with this strange scenario that Iran ruled by religious fanatics will become a more prosperous nation while the GCC will somehow become underdeveloped?
 
Last edited:
Yeah, well those with glass houses, your leader gets journalists chopped up in embassies
So for how long will you focus/obsess about Khashoggi that you do not care about (let us be honest here) and which the West focused 1 billion times more on than the 100's of Iranian dissidents that have been killed across the world since 1979?

You can mention 1 individual from KSA (Khashoggi) that was killed, in a likely failed/botched operation (that somehow the whole world knew beforehand - apparently the Saudi Arabian embassy in Istanbul was bugged by the Turkish intelligence service - strange eh?, Hollywood made entire shows about this one individual), but nobody cares or gives a crap about the 100's of Iranian dissidents that the Iranian regime has been killing since 1979.

Unlike Iranian regime propagandists, I openly admit that MbS is far from perfect let alone the House of Saud and that they have committed many mistakes in the past, again we do not worship them religiously or in any such sort of way - like many worship the Iranian leadership religiously, but I talked bout the Khashoggi murder/assasination in great detail and my theory was/is that it was a setup to try to weakene/extort MBS (which failed) at the initial period of his rise. Too many coincidences all at once. KSA never did such "operations" before as well or since. It was during a time where KSA-Turkiye relations were at their weakest. Somehow the KSA embassy was bugged beforehand. Parts of US media were running hit pieces against Khashoggi calling him a MB terrorist, former support of OBL etc. This is not the thread for it but this whole incident is murky at best.


Or the Iranian regime slaughtering their own people in the 1.000's (if not 10.000's) on an almost annual basis.

Zero such examples in the ENTIRE history of KSA.














I could go on, but I will stop here:


Apples and oranges as I wrote. It is a vile regime, nothing anybody writes will change this. And the main victims have been Iranians and Iran.

If users here love the Iranian regime so much what are they doing in the UK, USA, West and elsewhere? What are they waiting for? The Iranian regime has been at war for 4 weeks by now. Even 99.99% of all the Iranian users on this very forum (99.99% of them based in the very same West that is attacking the Iranian regime) are still keyboard warriors here instead of enlisting for the Iranian regime. If they love the Iranian regime so much what are they doing on PDF 24/7 when their county is attacked 24/7? Are they going to destroy Israel, the US and the GCC by being keyboard warriors online on PDF?
 
Last edited:
What are the costs of a ground operation, and once you have the coast, does that mean US has to hold it/ guard it to keep the strait open? Thats like another forever war then. And lets say we do hold it, does that stop Iran from building nukes? Or attacking the troops on coast instead of the ships on hormuz? Is the end game a negotiation, then why not negotiate now (Iran had even offered a better deal then Obama but the idiot nepotistic lead negotiators couldn’t even understand it or were not sincere from beginng)? Or we need total capitulation and installing Reza Pehalvi, while No Kings protests are being held in US itself - what a cluster f.

I am going to group some of my answers for better presentation, so they don't answer your points sequentially

Strategic Goal level, if Trump/Netanyahu wants the strait open and to freely conduct FoN ops, then you need to hold part of the coast, or the entire coast to be able to do them, but if the Strategic Goal is to have Iranian government give up nuclear ambition and missile technology, as I said, unless the next guy in Iran cave, you will need a regime change.

As for what is the cost of a ground operation. If you are talking about a coastal operation, you are talking about anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000 troops (roughly 10 times the troop we currently had in the region, including the troop that are already in place, not just the Marine MEU or the Airborne) with supporting elements (aviation, artillery, logistics, and so on) so you are probably looking at anywhere 100,000-120,000 men, and this is what make attacking those island make sense, because it can turn them into FOB in support of a coastal operation. And you are looking at anywhere between 15-30% casualty (KIA, WIA, and MIA), harder if only us, easier if the Gulf Countries pitch in.

If we do a regime change, then you will need the Iranian opposition to support that op, you need to unite the Kurds, the Baloch, and the Shahist, which is not going to be easy, and then possibly do a full control operation like what we did in Afghanistan with the Northern Alliance, which back then it took NATO 185,000 troop, and Iran is roughly 3 times the size of Afghanistan (1.6 million sq mile vs 650,000 sq mile), so you are looking at around 500,000-600,000 troop is needed, it's not going to be doable unless we had a sort of alliance going in like we did back in 2001. And you are looking at around 2 to 3 times the casualty number, conservatively if we measure with Afghanistan.

I don't believe there is a way of negotiation, maybe time changes and people change? I don't know, but if I am Iran, I don't think I will EVER want to give up nuclear weapon from now on, and as I said, they now know they can get what they want just by holding Hormuz, unless something had change in the dynamic (like a sort of canal or pipeline) that by-pass the strait, I don't see how Iran will not use it to try to get what they want.

Whether or not Trump backs down is pointless; he can back down, but I don't think it changes anything. Even if he backs down, it wouldn't change the Iranian calculus. It basically is how soon they can resolve this now and get into the next crisis, unless and until a third option is presented to them.
 
So for how long will you focus/obsess about Khashoggi that you do not care about (let us be honest here) and which the West focused 1 billion times more on than the 100's of Iranian dissidents that have been killed across the world since 1979?

You can mention 1 individual from KSA (Khashoggi) that was killed, in a likely failed/botched operation (that somehow the whole world knew beforehand - apparently the Saudi Arabian embassy in Istanbul was bugged by the Turkish intelligence service - strange eh?, Hollywood made entire shows about this one individual), but nobody cares or gives a crap about the 100's of Iranian dissidents that the Iranian regime has been killing since 1979.

Unlike Iranian regime propagandists, I openly admit that MbS is far from perfect let alone the House of Saud and that they have committed many mistakes in the past, again we do not worship them religiously or in any such sort of way - like many worship the Iranian leadership religiously, but I talked bout the Khashoggi murder/assasination in great detail and my theory was/is that it was a setup to try to weakene/extort MBS (which failed) at the initial period of his rise. Too many coincidences all at once. KSA never did such "operations" before as well or since. It was during a time where KSA-Turkiye relations were at their weakest. Somehow the KSA embassy was bugged beforehand. Parts of US media were running hit pieces against Khashoggi calling him a MB terrorist, former support of OBL etc. This is not the thread for it but this whole incident is murky at best.


Or the Iranian regime slaughtering their own people in the 1.000's (if not 10.000's) on an almost annual basis.

Zero such examples in the ENTIRE history of KSA.














I could go on, but I will stop here:


Apples and oranges as I wrote. It is a vile regime, nothing anybody writes will change this. And the main victims have been Iranians and Iran.

Post as many links as you like, but you cannot call others barbaric when your heads of state behave like the mafia.

You still publicly execute people by beheading. Iranian are no saints for sure, but you cannot take the moral high ground here
 
Post as many links as you like, but you cannot call others barbaric when your heads of state behave like the mafia.

You still publicly execute people by beheading. Iranian are no saints for sure, but you cannot take the moral high ground here
Name one single state in the history of the world, or regime, that has not at one point in time, killed their dissidents or committed mistakes? You cannot do that.

You can only mention 1 example from KSA (Khashoggi) who was killed/murdered/assassinated 7.5 years ago.

The Iranian regime, as I provided amble evidence of, has killed 100's (if not 1000's) of Iranian dissidents across the world since 1979.

That is besides the Iranian regime murdering 10.000's of their own people on an almost annual basis unlike KSA as well.

You are comparing an individual who has received a speeding ticket with a serial killer and calling both of them criminals without distinguishing their crimes.

Ridiculous comparisons and arguments from your part. Not even worthy of a reply.

KSA does not use public beheading (which is the most humane method of execution) any longer or any public executions. Which I personally consider a mistake. Now executions, mostly beheading, hangings or firing squads, are conducted within prisons.

Also I have never criticized the Iranian regime for using capital punishment (which I personally support). Nor the US or Japan, China, Pakistan or anybody else.
 
Name one single state in the history of the world, or regime, that has not at one point in time, killed their dissidents or committed mistakes? You cannot do that.

You can only mention 1 example from KSA (Khashoggi) who was killed/murdered/assassinated 7.5 years ago.

The Iranian regime, as I provided amble evidence of, has killed 100's (if not 1000's) of Iranian dissidents across the world since 1979.

That is besides the Iranian regime murdering 10.000's of their own people on an almost annual basis unlike KSA as well.

You are comparing an individual who has received a speeding ticket with a serial killer and calling both of them criminals without distinguishing their crimes.

Ridiculous comparisons and arguments from your part. Not even worthy of a reply.

KSA does not use public beheading (which is the most humane method of execution) any longer or any public executions. Which I personally consider a mistake. Now executions, mostly beheading, hangings or firing squads, are conducted within prisons.

Also I have never criticized the Iranian regime for using capital punishment (which I personally support). Nor the US or Japan, China, Pakistan or anybody else.

Semantics now. Your country did not even allow women to drive recently and calling others backwards? You are basically Taliban with more cash....
 
This was Iraqi forces trying to leave, the Iranians are on home ground. Their underground tunnel networks are vast and can hide armies in there. This is going to be very drawn out.
US forces will stop at coastal regions I believe.

Let us all hope that Pakistan's efforts bear fruit in the form of fruitful negotiations with positive outcomes that make such hypothetical scenarios unnecessary.
 
Semantics now. Your country did not even allow women to drive recently and calling others backwards? You are basically Taliban with more cash....
More nonsense. The only thing you can mention is Khashoggi (1 example since 1932), a 7.5 year old incident that was and is unprecedented. Now the only other argument that I have heard 1000 times, women driving. Which was never a law but a de facto ban in cities. Saudi Arabian women in the countryside never stopped driving.

The ban was retarded anyway and did not exist prior to 1979 (Grand Mosque Seizure) and was protested by the society and Saudi Arabian women for decades prior to its formal removal. Never did the regime in return kill/mass murder those protestors. In fact during Desert Storm in 1991, Saudi Arabian women protested massively by driving towards the Kuwaiti border and into Kuwait. The Saudi Arabian media covered it somewhat but retarded Mullah's (sounds familiar - Iran has been ruled by similar people since 1979) protested and forced the rulers hands.

Speaking about women, KSA women are one of the most educated women in the world with some of the highest STEM graduates globally and within a few years women work participation went from less than 10% to almost 40% of the entire workforce of the country.

And once again, I have never been a blind follower of the regime or claimed that no mistakes were ever committed unlike the Iranian regime bots here who are incapable of criticizing their beloved Iranian regime despite 1 billion evidence of their wrongdoings.

In fact on the old PDF forum you would have seen me writing on numerous occasions that KSA needs to reform and reform such retarded laws (ban on women driving) and open up. Luckily my prayers were heard and KSA has excelled on almost all fronts and reformed on an unprecedented scale globally in the past 10 years. I still remember discussing with numerous clowns on old PDF and elsewhere (in person even) that claimed that KSA will suffer from some kind of civil war and that most people did not support those reforms but the ground reality proved me correct as mostly has been the case.

I have no doubt that I will be right about the future of the Iranian regime and the region as well. We will just have to wait and see.
 
This war is not going to end without a permanent settlement of the regional strategic chessboard...I am bit surprised that a veteran like you is thinking in a narrow bandwidth of Iran , Hormuz and shipping.....my detached perspective if you care to know ! There's high probability ( if no de-escalation within this week ) of amphibious landing around Hormuz , though it will be costly, yet it's doable....there won't be D day type attack on Iran nor is that required.... Militarily , Iran is hanging by a thread , she has shown all her cards and of them proved to be a trump card .... Hezbollah issue has to be settled , writ of the Lebanese government over all of her territory has to be established... houthis problem has to resolved.. Palestinian issue has to be worked with.....why do you think every country in the region is sitting on the sidelines and 🚫 none is criticizing America ? ....this was not started at the impulse of the potus.... there is lots of planning and lots of countries behind it ....it won't be anything like Iraq or Afghanistan... pressure from the air will do it's job....Iran has to succumb one way or the other , standing for ummah and Palestine slogans are not going to cut ... America is not backing off without getting the desired results..... keep in mind , no country in the world wants to see a nuclear Iran... everyone is happy sitting on the moral high grounds and letting America and Israel do the dirty work.
What you are pointing out is the "best case scenario" for the US. Iran lost the will to fight back, allies continue their support with the US operation in the area, and pressure from the air alone can buckle the Iranian regime.

I mean, can it end that way? Sure, why not? The issue here is, what are the telltale signs telling us? First of all, not a single country in the world of air campaign history has buckled with Air Power alone, the Nazi failed to do it to the UK when they were bombing London, and the allied failed to do it to Germany and Japan when they were bombing Hamburg, Berlin and Tokyo, Operation Linebacker didn't push the VC and NVA back into North Vietnam from Ho-Chi-Ming Trail, Operation Desert Storm is probably the closest of them all, but then that is to systematically destory Iraqi Air Defence for us to go into Kuwait, which not too much of Iraq was touched. And we have to move in with the Marine and the Allies and fight a brief war to actually expel the Iraqi from Kuwait. Airpower in OIF and OEF has become a second fiddle to Infantry Operations.

On the other hand, the preparation for this war is nowhere near enough; it's even less than when we fly in and get Maduro out. We didn't think about how we could divert traffic out of Hormuz, we didn't think of reinforcing our allies in the area, we didn't even cooperate with our own allies on this, as evidenced by the first couple of days, we had a ridiculous amount of friendly fire both toward the US and from the US.

Can the US launch a limited ground war? Sure, but then the scope has to be really small, to a point it wouldn't matter to the grand strategy, you need to think of it like how you can connect the dot, you don't just get 1 objective, a series of object would get you a battle, and a series of battle achieve an operational goal, and a series of campaign to achieve a Strategic Victory. The question is, what can you do with ~5000 troops?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Pakistan Defence Latest

Latest Posts

Back
Top