US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

j_hungary said:
First of all, are you seriously comparing this to Venezuela? We have the element of surprise in Venezuela; they think we are just going to bomb them, they react accordingly, and we outsmart them by leaning in this stealth cloud.

We Fking tell Iran we are going to come and get their Nuclear Material after bombing them for 35 days. That's a different story.

Second, it's never an "open terrain" if it were, they wouldn't hide their nuclear material in "open terrain." you don't need to understand the concept of military intelligence to know that; all you need is common sense.

And finally, I don't know how much you think you know about Special Operations and Air Support. I RAN A TOC in Afghanistan. This isn't a Superman operation; we have had A-Teams being beaten by mountain people and asking for extraction, things that you would have NEVER heard of. It's not going to be this easy to think we can just fly in and get the material and fly out. The worst-case scenario is they WILL detonate those material and make a shithouse in the Entire Middle East.
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Your premise was wrong from the get go that “tens of thousands” of IRGC were guarding the site. An yes, I’ll compare it to Venezuela. US combined arms forces tend to be overwhelming.

I didn’t say an HEU extraction would be easy, just that the CSAR operation may encourage a ground operation based off the success of CSAR forces today. It’s a high risk operation, but Trump may go for it.
 
dbc said:
its astounding how ready some Americans are to sacrifice some other Americans blood for bragging rights on the internet.
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Same is true for most countries. Every country has someone powerful enough making decision about consequences that are not a mortal problem to themselves. Its not like the good old days where kings and Generals had to open wars with ritual single combat and the sons of nobles led the war from the front.

More than 2000 innocent Iranis have been killed, dozens of innocents in the GCC countries have been killed. This not even counting that many soldiers on all side of the war tend to be good people following the orders of despots. Not all are free from bloodlust, but many are treated as if they have more value as rallying icons in coffins than when they were alive. Anyone who has spent time in a VA hospital would know.
 
F-22Raptor said:
So no, US forces would not go through the IRGC they would fly over it, secure the site, setup defensive perimeters, and fly in excavation equipment, resupply, and build an an airstrip.
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The world according to Raptor...
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Iran damaged a Black Hawk but the crew returned safely.
 
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F-22Raptor said:
Your premise was wrong from the get go that “tens of thousands” of IRGC were guarding the site. An yes, I’ll compare it to Venezuela. US combined arms forces tend to be overwhelming.

I didn’t say an HEU extraction would be easy, just that the CSAR operation may encourage a ground operation based off the success of CSAR forces today. It’s a high risk operation, but Trump may go for it.
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Yes, you know how my assertion was wrong, maybe because you had personally inspected the site already?

For an intelligence specialist like me, with years of experience with the military intelligence and I can't tell from a couple of satellite photos whether or not someplace is heavily guarded or not. Nobody can. I remember a friend of mine who I took over his job, and man that TOC, he was the guy who was in charge of the Battle of Takur Ghar, in which Neil Roberts was killed because we didn't see anyone in that mountain, and trying to drop the Special Force there. That was 3 years before I took his command.

If they really do start a cowboy op like that because of some CSAR flying heli low, then the entire Pentagon is going to lose people's respect because that's NOT a parameter to start with any operational requirement. That's just things to make you feel good, and YOU SHOULD NEVER START AN OPERATION BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD.

I am not going to talk to you about this. You can either go sign up an option 40 contract yourself and do it yourself or stop talking nonsense
 
C'mon people (including mods :rolleyes: ) please control yourselves.

Let's stick to the topic instead of focusing on attacking other members news posts.

You guys are heading down the rat hole.
 
j_hungary said:
Yes, you know how my assertion was wrong, maybe because you had personally inspected the site already?

For an intelligence specialist like me, with years of experience with the military intelligence and I can't tell from a couple of satellite photos whether or not someplace is heavily guarded or not. Nobody can. I remember a friend of mine who I took over his job, and man that TOC, he was the guy who was in charge of the Battle of Takur Ghar, in which Neil Roberts was killed because we didn't see anyone in that mountain, and trying to drop the Special Force there. That was 3 years before I took his command.

If they really do start a cowboy op like that because of some CSAR flying heli low, then the entire Pentagon is going to lose people's respect because that's NOT a parameter to start with any operational requirement. That's just things to make you feel good, and YOU SHOULD NEVER START AN OPERATION BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD.

I am not going to talk to you about this. You can either go sign up an option 40 contract yourself and do it yourself or stop talking nonsense
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I want to thank you for composing this eloquent retort. Because whilst the optics of low flying PJs and blackhawks makes for "TactiCoool" optics.

The reality is far more bleak, think at the sheer risk each if those professionals exposed themselves to needlessly for an operation that continues to have convoluted aims and uncertain timelines.

The risk these men and women exposed themselves to may be lost on some but it is nothing short of impressive and frustrating at the same time.

Think for a moment about the families of these men and women in uniform and the uncertainty and fears they must feel and hold close to their chests?

Some may dismiss "but they know what they signed up for". Respectfully, unless you have worn a uniform and been in the mud and shit, please remain silent.

What a mess.
 
Hamartia Antidote said:
C'mon people (including mods :rolleyes: ) please control yourselves.

Let's stick to the topic instead of attacking other members.

You guys are heading down the rat hole.
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This is aimed at me. I will indeed attack a certain member for treating this war like a map of Battlefield.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
j_hungary said:
Yes, you know how my assertion was wrong, maybe because you had personally inspected the site already?

For an intelligence specialist like me, with years of experience with the military intelligence and I can't tell from a couple of satellite photos whether or not someplace is heavily guarded or not. Nobody can. I remember a friend of mine who I took over his job, and man that TOC, he was the guy who was in charge of the Battle of Takur Ghar, in which Neil Roberts was killed because we didn't see anyone in that mountain, and trying to drop the Special Force there. That was 3 years before I took his command.

If they really do start a cowboy op like that because of some CSAR flying heli low, then the entire Pentagon is going to lose people's respect because that's NOT a parameter to start with any operational requirement. That's just things to make you feel good, and YOU SHOULD NEVER START AN OPERATION BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD.

I am not going to talk to you about this. You can either go sign up an option 40 contract yourself and do it yourself or stop talking nonsense
Click to expand...

Once again, the operational plan to extract HEU has been presented to the President. That’s confirmed below. You believe it can’t be done, the Joint Chiefs believe otherwise.

 
I am stunned to find out some of my fellow Americans think war can just be simplified into one or two missions. That's not the case here, and it NEVER was in the history of warfare. This is the Russian level of ignorance...........the type that simply buys into the narrative and does not question anything.

To win a war, not just a war in Iran, but to win a war, you need to have 3 different sets of goals, as said before, you need to have

-Tactical Objective
-Operational Objective
-Strategic Objective

It didn't matter if we had already bombed Iran back into the Stone Age; it wouldn't matter if they couldn't fight back, the 3 objectives have to be fulfilled and have to interact with each other before you can call a war won.

Your Campaign (Operational Objective) must be fulfilled by your Battle (Tactical Objective), and your Strategic Goal must be fulfilled by your military Campaign. Your battle had to be the reason why you can complete your military campaign, and your campaign must be the reason why you can achieve your Strategic Goal.

In this case, having a flawless air campaign (which is far from flawless to begin with) does not contribute to either of the Stategic Goal at hand, it will not remove the Iranian regime nor its nuclear stockpile, because both require a ground campaign and operation, and this is not going to be an Special Force insertion because you WILL BE FACING THE ENTIRE NATION, instead of just a location or just a power plant.

It's time to drop the BS and smell the coffee.
 
Read on another forum that an A-10 has now been downed. Supposedly reported on NYT but I did not see anything there yet. Just the downing of the F-15. Will be checking other sources and report back when something definitive is reported.
 
j_hungary said:
I am stunned to find out some of my fellow Americans think war can just be simplified into one or two missions. That's not the case here, and it NEVER was in the history of warfare. This is the Russian level of ignorance...........the type that simply buys into the narrative and does not question anything.

To win a war, not just a war in Iran, but to win a war, you need to have 3 different sets of goals, as said before, you need to have

-Tactical Objective
-Operational Objective
-Strategic Objective

It didn't matter if we had already bombed Iran back into the Stone Age; it wouldn't matter if they couldn't fight back, the 3 objectives have to be fulfilled and have to interact with each other before you can call a war won.

Your Campaign (Operational Objective) must be fulfilled by your Battle (Tactical Objective), and your Strategic Goal must be fulfilled by your military Campaign. Your battle had to be the reason why you can complete your military campaign, and your campaign must be the reason why you can achieve your Strategic Goal.

In this case, having a flawless air campaign (which is far from flawless to begin with) does not contribute to either of the Stategic Goal at hand, it will not remove the Iranian regime nor its nuclear stockpile, because both require a ground campaign and operation, and this is not going to be an Special Force insertion because you WILL BE FACING THE ENTIRE NATION, instead of just a location or just a power plant.

It's time to drop the BS and smell the coffee.
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Good luck with that, bro'.

The self-anointed arm chair analyst who never did your job is apparently smarter than you.
 
Hamartia Antidote said:
C'mon people (including mods :rolleyes: ) please control yourselves.

Let's stick to the topic instead of focusing on attacking other members news posts.

You guys are heading down the rat hole.
Click to expand...

I’ve stuck to the topic, Iran-US. Can’t say the same for other members here.
 
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An A-10 crashed near the Strait, the pilot was rescued.
 
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