US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War

[_Arabia_]

although I offer regular prayers and do rituals beyond 5 times prayer

but, I have made sure, this sunni - shia thing, does not sit in my head, once it does it takes over all ones decision making!


this biasedness makes very wrong right and conversely, every right wrong!
took me a while to get over sunni shia sectarian biasedness


I'd rather prefer if people can judge others in terms of how open they are in conceiving, feeling, observing and tasting truth!

if one cannot do that, it is over!

you can make millions, but these millions will come at a cost of a dumb society and will eventually eat everybody!


not saying, one cannot have preference for his own sect or religion... but it does not that it blurs ones vision so much, that he/she cannot even look at the full picture.... this happens to the best of us, to overcome this biasedness, I worked and I worked ... and have finally developed a sharp observation skill set! took time!

It is not about sects. Iranian regime has nothing to do with Shia Islam nor do they have any kind of monopoly on it any more than the Taliban have a monopoly on Sunni islam. Until 500 years ago Shias were a small minority in Iran until the forceful Safavid conversions in the 1500's and 1600's. Where Shia Arab clerics from modern-day South Lebanon, South Iraq and Eastern Arabia (KSA) played a key role and were imported in their 1000's - entire families. Many of those people became the clerical elites of Iran of today because the Safavid fused military power of the state and dynastic power with Twelver Shia Islam and the new Shia Arab elite that was encouraged to settle in Iran in large numbers and who helped alter Iran greatly.

Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli media but the article is historically accurate:

The Blogs: From Crown to Turban: How Iran’s Clergy Became a Political Power

From the blog of Tim Orr at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

Here is a peer reviewed scholarly article about this:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372089472_The_role_of_Shiite_clerics_during_the_Safavid_state_1501-1722

It is very simple. They are using a sect and 47 year old cult concept (that 99% of all ordinary Shia Twelvers are even theologically against):

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

to create loyal and backward proxy terrorist groups in the region that act like fifth columns in their host countries.

The region has had enough of it which is why the current Shia Arab dominated Iraqi government is taking steps to disarm the PMF/Iranian aligned proxy groups completely by September 30 of this year.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Problem is that the Iranian regime wants to hide their imperial/regional ambitions in the region under the cover of sectarianism while accusing/using sectarian language or calling regimes/countries who do not follow the Iranian regime party line or disagrees with their conduct for all sorts of names from sectarian slurs to accusations of being "Zionists", "doing the US bidding" etc. nonsense.

They WANT to make it sectarian in order to hide under that cover.

Same way they used the rhetoric against Israel and the US to prop up their terrorist proxies in the region and wrecking havoc in the region.

Why did they not target Israel even one single time prior to Israel carpet bombing them 1000's of times and declaring a war against them? For almost 50 years. They were more busy barrel bombing Syrian civilians (Muslims, Christians, Agnostics/Atheists alike) and engage in their cheap propaganda and rhetoric. All to keep their proxy network alive.

All those 10's of billions of USD wasted on their proxies (that quite frankly used the Iranian regime as their personal piggy bank and to enrich themselves) was supposed to act like a shield (protection) for them. How did that go again?

People made it sectarian because they did not understood what this was really about. They just saw a Shia-majority country and x or y Sunni majority country.

But they did not bother looking at more than just that.

Shia Arabs live peacefully (always done so since 1979) in KSA and in other Arab nations hostile to the Iranian regime. They live WAY BETTER than the average Iranian Shia Muslim. With the same rights as everybody else. Nobody bothers them either.

What we are RIGHTLY against (Arabs as a collective I would claim) is Iranian opportunistic meddling in war-torn Arab nations and support for backward terrorist proxy groups and fifth columns who are doing the Iranian regime bidding and undermining their own countries. If that is sectarianism, most Arabs are proudly sectarian. Most people (sane ones) however would call it common sense.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

It is not about sects. Iranian regime has nothing to do with Shia Islam nor do they have any kind of monopoly on it any more than the Taliban have a monopoly on Sunni islam. Until 500 years ago Shias were a small minority in Iran until the forceful Safavid conversions in the 1500's and 1600's. Where Shia Arab clerics from modern-day South Lebanon, South Iraq and Eastern Arabia (KSA) played a key role and were imported in their 1000's - entire families. Many of those people became the clerical elites of Iran of today because the Safavid fused military power of the state and dynastic power with Twelver Shia Islam and the new Shia Arab elite that was encouraged to settle in Iran in large numbers and who helped alter Iran greatly.

Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Israeli media but the article is historically accurate:

The Blogs: From Crown to Turban: How Iran’s Clergy Became a Political Power

From the blog of Tim Orr at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

Here is a peer reviewed scholarly article about this:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372089472_The_role_of_Shiite_clerics_during_the_Safavid_state_1501-1722

It is very simple. They are using a sect and 47 year old cult concept (that 99% of all ordinary Shia Twelvers are even theologically against):

Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

to create loyal and backward proxy terrorist groups in the region that act like fifth columns in their host countries.

The region has had enough of it which is why the current Shia Arab dominated Iraqi government is taking steps to disarm the PMF/Iranian aligned proxy groups completely by September 30 of this year.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Problem is that the Iranian regime wants to hide their imperial/regional ambitions in the region under the cover of sectarianism while accusing/using sectarian language or calling regimes/countries who do not follow the Iranian regime party line or disagrees with their conduct for all sorts of names from sectarian slurs to accusations of being "Zionists", "doing the US bidding" etc. nonsense.

They WANT to make it sectarian in order to hide under that cover.

Same way they used the rhetoric against Israel and the US to prop up their terrorist proxies in the region and wrecking havoc in the region.

Why did they not target Israel even one single time prior to Israel carpet bombing them 1000's of times and declaring a war against them? For almost 50 years. They were more busy barrel bombing Syrian civilians (Muslims, Christians, Agnostics/Atheists alike) and engage in their cheap propaganda and rhetoric. All to keep their proxy network alive.

All those 10's of billions of USD wasted on their proxies (that quite frankly used the Iranian regime as their personal piggy bank and to enrich themselves) was supposed to act like a shield (protection) for them. How did that go again?

People made it sectarian because they did not understood what this was really about. They just saw a Shia-majority country and x or y Sunni majority country.

But they did not bother looking at more than just that.

Shia Arabs live peacefully (always done so since 1979) in KSA and in other Arab nations hostile to the Iranian regime. They live WAY BETTER than the average Iranian Shia Muslim. With the same rights as everybody else. Nobody bothers them either.

What we are RIGHTLY against (Arabs as a collective I would claim) is Iranian opportunistic meddling in war-torn Arab nations and support for backward terrorist proxy groups and fifth columns who are doing the Iranian regime bidding and undermining their own countries. If that is sectarianism, most Arabs are proudly sectarian. Most people (sane ones) however would call it common sense.

I dont care, what IR is nor not!

I care about, some one spoon feeding me, what they are not!

I know where and how to look!

 

[_Arabia_]

I dont care, what IR is nor not!

I care about, some one spoon feeding me, what they are not!

I know where and how to look!

Look again then because you made a multifaceted conflict and stupidly reduced it to sect. Quite a superficial and useless analysis, may I claim, for a user who claims to "know it all" and who takes the moral high ground.

I suggest you do a bit more of research before claiming to have found the holy grail.

Everything that I wrote is factual and can even be backed up by scholarly works, 1 of which I already posted.

Here is another evidence from the mouth of actual Iraqi Shia Arab clerics (learned ones - practically out of reach in terms of Islamic knowledge for most if not all users here on this forum):

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Watch and learn.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Look again then because you made a multifaceted conflict and stupidly reduced it to sect. Quite a superficial and useless analysis, may I claim, for a user who claims to "know it all" and who takes the moral high ground.

I suggest you do a bit more of research before claiming to have found the holy grail.

Everything that I wrote is factual and can even be backed up by scholarly works, 1 of which I already posted.

Here is another evidence from the mouth of actual Iraqi Shia Arab clerics (learned ones - practically out of reach in terms of Islamic knowledge for most if not all users here on this forum):

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Watch and learn.

respectfully, I dont agree

historians can be bought!
where is the record on that?!

 

[_Arabia_]

respectfully, I dont agree

historians can be bought!
where is the record on that?!

Are you now going to claim that well-known historical facts (confirmed by every first-hand Arab, Iranian and every other source) are all a forgery? As well as events on the ground in the past 47 years?

Ok. After all we still have flat eaters around and people who claim that the sun orbits around the earth and not the other way around. I guess each to his own.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Post in thread 'US Defence related thread' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/us-defence-related-thread.28735/post-1361446

Trump is NOT going to end this war, or others, as long as his two sons are raking in billions of dollars in defense spending.

The only way to end this war is to cut off the money. At least one Congressman understands this. (See link below)

(BTW, the Vietnam War ended when Congress stopped the funding)


Post in thread 'US Perspective on the Iran - Israel / US War' https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/us-perspective-on-the-iran-israel-us-war.31323/post-1360019

 

[F-22Raptor]

If this is true this is a massive loss

View attachment 208744

Not seen any evidence to support this claim. Even IF true, the F-35 fleet is approaching 900, with 156+ being produced a year.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Are you now going to claim that well-known historical facts (confirmed by every first-hand Arab, Iranian and every other source) are all a forgery? As well as events on the ground in the past 47 years?

Ok. After all we still have flat eaters around and people who claim that the sun orbits around the earth and not the other way around. I guess each to his own.

okay, so well known facts!
(interestingly, all your facts come from Shia hatred!)
in other words, even your facts are biased!

these are the facts, do you find them in history?!


1. in Spain, which was conquered by J#W**h help. Muslims retained them as thmeir servants and who went on to become part of Muslim society under the guile of Muslim names, where is the record on that?!

2. before Safvids, there was Fatimid dynasty, which was taken over mysteriously from the revolt which came from the treachery within, who did that revolt and why?!

(record exist for it?!!)

3. how did Baghdad fall to Mongols (when there were strong Muslim rulers!), where is the history on that?!!!


respectfully, you can call shia, kaffir or whatever.. or you can dislike them bec, they are in majroity in key areas (Where oil production comes from), you can spread your Arab biasedness and call it shia hatred (or whatever!)


you dont ask me to wear your lense!


thats very dishonest!

 

[Ali_Baba]

Are you now going to claim that well-known historical facts (confirmed by every first-hand Arab, Iranian and every other source) are all a forgery? As well as events on the ground in the past 47 years?

Ok. After all we still have flat eaters around and people who claim that the sun orbits around the earth and not the other way around. I guess each to his own.

@_Arabia_
@Mighty_Dragon_Strike

Please take this "thread" of conversation of "Shia" to another thread - if you want to create a new thread for this, go ahead but this thread is for a "western based focus on the war"...

 

[_Arabia_]

okay, so well known facts!


these are the facts, do you find them in history?!


1. in Spain, which was conquered by J#W**h help. Muslims retained them as thmeir servants and who went on to become part of Muslim society under the guile of Muslim names, where is the record on that?!

2. before Safvids, there was Fatimid dynasty, which was taken over mysteriously from the revolt which came from the treachery within, who did that revolt and why?!

(record exist for it?!!)

3. how did Baghdad fell to Mongols (when there were strong Muslim rulers!), where is the history on that?!!!


respectfully, you can call shia, kaffir or whatever.. or you can dislike them bec, they are in majroity in key areas (Where oil production comes from), you can spread your Arab biasedness and call it shia hatred (or whatever!)


you dont ask me to wear your lense!


thats very dishonest!

With all due respect try to write something even remotely coherent. You are blabbering about topics in east and west (that I never discussed) and that you likely have very limited knowledge about. Ironically all topics native to the Arab world or Arabs and that I am very familiar with. There are plenty of first-hand (written) accounts of those events and many scholarly books (in the more modern era) have been written about those events as well. Contemporary scholars and clerics and past and present rulers also written about those events extensively. As did contemporary historians. At least there are plenty of Arab sources on those topics that you mentioned. Old (contemporary) as well as modern ones.

As for the rest of your post, aside from being full of stupid and unfounded claims, it is even laughable to reply to but I don't hate any sect or religion for that matter. At most I have theological disagreements.

As for our Shia Arab lot, I care about them just as much as everyone else among us. I do not consider them any less Arab or Muslim. Try again. Don't equal millions of ordinary Shia Arabs with terrorist cults, Iranian regime policies and fifth columns which all my criticism is directed against.

You lost the little ounce of seriousness that I put in replying to your posts by writing such nonsense but on the other hand I am not that surprised.

Lastly Shia Arab Saudi Arabians are a minority in the Eastern Province and no sect has any ownership of oil or gas. Try to use your intelligence just a little bit before writing such utter nonsense. And speaking of this topic, ARAMCO (one of the world's most valuable companies) employs many Saudi Arabian Shias, in high positions, in fact the director of ARAMCO has been a Shia for many decades. Embarrassing stuff as usual with tremendous ignorance to show for while giving an aura of "know it all". Embarrassing.

@Mighty_Dragon_Strike

Please take this "thread" of conversation of "Shia" to another thread - if you want to create a new thread for this, go ahead but this thread is for a "western based focus on the war"...

Noted. My previous posts were related to the topic and very much so but trolls derailed this thread and I was forced to reply. Ending it here.

Not interested in that discussion either as most people are not very educated on this front and it would be a waste of time to begin with. I have written what I need to write about this topic already. No need for more.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Purpose of this thread is dedicated to discussion of the current conflict between Iran with Israel and the US from the American perspective.

(See post #1)

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

With all due respect try to write something even remotely coherent. You are blabbering about topics in east and west (that I never discussed) and that you likely have very limited knowledge about. Ironically all topics native to the Arab world or Arabs and that I am very familiar with. There are plenty of first-hand (written) accounts of those events and many scholarly books (in the more modern era) have been written about those events as well. Contemporary scholars and clerics and past and present rulers also wrote about those events extensively.

As for the rest of your post, aside from being full of stupid and unfounded claims, it is even laughable to reply to but I don't hate any sect or religion for that matter. At most I have theological disagreements.

As for our Shia Arab lot, I care about them just as much as everyone else among us. I do not consider them any less Arab or Muslim. Try again. Don't equal millions of ordinary Shia Arabs with terrorist cults, Iranian regime policies and fifth columns which all my criticism is directed against.

You lost the little ounce of seriousness that I put in replying to your posts by writing such nonsense but on the other hand I am not that surprised.

Lastly Shia Arab Saudi Arabians are a minority in the Eastern Province and no sect has any ownership of oil or gas. Try to use your intelligence just a little bit before writing such utter nonsense. And speaking of this topic, ARAMCO (one of the world's most valuable companies) employs many Saudi Arabian Shias, in high positions, in fact the director of ARAMCO has been a Shia for many decades. Embarrassing stuff as usual with tremendous ignorance to show for while giving an aura of "know it all". Embarrassing.

Im also working on netting agreements, besides arguing with you!

so, none of my questions matter to you!?

why is that?!

no further replies, here onwards

interestingly, whenever some one starts to ask questions, all of a sudden, questioning either becomes irrelevant or in-coherent
(obviously, you dislike, to hear opposing views!)
it is as if, all your history that you shove down our throat (uninvited!) had coherence, which one cannot argue to begin with!


please stop the charade!

 

[_Arabia_]

Im also working on netting agreements, besides arguing with you!

so, none of my questions matter to you!?

why is that?!

no further replies, here onwards

interestingly, whenever some one starts to ask questions, all of a sudden, questioning either becomes irrelevant or in-coherent
(obviously, you dislike, to hear opposing views!)
it is as if, all your history that you shove down our throat (uninvited!) had coherence, which one cannot argue to begin with!


please stop the charade!

More incoherent trolling with all due respect. Not worthy of a reply as you lost the little "legitimacy" that you had left for me to take you even remotely seriously by writing your nonsense (unfounded as usual) claims about me.

I think that everyone can see who has written historical facts, even used scholarly works and video clips from authoritative sources in the know and who has sticked to mostly incoherent ramblings.

Which is why you have been unable to counter a single one of my factual statements. Which should be very easy if nonsense.

Not seen any evidence to support this claim. Even IF true, the F-35 fleet is approaching 900, with 156+ being produced a year.

Doubtful like most of the Iranian claims so far in this aerial conflict (I would not call it a full-scale war as there have been close to no naval engagement nor any ground troops or fighting on the ground). It is basically an extended aerial campaign with significant pauses in between. So far at least.

Do you think that we will see assets such as F-35 be stored in underground bases in the future (more of it) rather than confined to hardened aircraft shelters and hangars?

 

[F-22Raptor]

More incoherent trolling with all due respect. Not worthy of a reply as you lost the little "legitimacy" that you had left for me to take you even remotely seriously by writing your nonsense (unfounded as usual) claims about me.

I think that everyone can see who has written historical facts, even used scholarly works and video clips from authoritative sources in the know and who has sticked to mostly incoherent ramblings.

Which is why you have been unable to counter a single one of my factual statements. Which should be very easy if nonsense.


Doubtful like most of the Iranian claims so far in this aerial conflict (I would not call it a full-scale war as there have been close to no naval engagement nor any ground troops or fighting on the ground). It is basically an extended aerial campaign with significant pauses in between. So far at least.

Do you think that we will see assets such as F-35 be stored in underground bases in the future (more of it) rather than confined to hardened aircraft shelters and hangars?

Not sure on underground bases, but USAF Agile Combat Employment strategy has proven very successful. The ability to manuever across bases in the region has kept the vast majority of the USAF fleet safe despite thousands of drones and ballistic missiles fired by Iran.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

More incoherent trolling with all due respect. Not worthy of a reply as you lost the little "legitimacy" that you had left for me to take you even remotely seriously by writing your nonsense (unfounded as usual) claims about me.

I think that everyone can see who has written historical facts, even used scholarly works and video clips from authoritative sources in the know and who has sticked to mostly incoherent ramblings.

Which is why you have been unable to counter a single one of my factual statements. Which should be very easy if nonsense.


Doubtful like most of the Iranian claims so far in this aerial conflict (I would not call it a full-scale war as there have been close to no naval engagement nor any ground troops or fighting on the ground). It is basically an extended aerial campaign with significant pauses in between. So far at least.

Do you think that we will see assets such as F-35 be stored in underground bases in the future (more of it) rather than confined to hardened aircraft shelters and hangars?

do you even know, any scientific example of, coherence?!

coherence, coherence my A&&!


do you even know what makes argument coherent?!

do you know, what is the criteria, to judge coherence in finance (bec, thats my field!)

if no (answer honestly) without looking into AI, then please shutup!