What Quaid Thought about Gen Ayub Khan

[PakFactor]

he was declared tactically meek by his CO in burma. read it somewhere years ago, will try to find a proper source.

he did prove this point when the 1965 war was horribly executed, for details on that I suggest you read A H Amin's articles.

I will do that. I have actually read in the past some of his articles. His name eluded me until you mentioned it now.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Nagpur court on Monday handed life imprisonment to ex-Brahmos Aerospace engineer Nishant Agarwal on charges of spying for Pakistan's ISI. Nishant Agarwal was arrested in 2018 on charges of leaking information about Brahmos missile to Pakistan's intelligence agency ISI. Agrawal was a senior system engineer with Brahmos Aerospace, a joint venture between DRDO and Russia’s Military Industrial Consortium (NPO Mashinostroyenia) that worked on India’s supersonic cruise missile, which could be launched from launched from land, air, sea and under water.

View attachment 45151
Nishat Agarwal

Agarwal will also have to undergo rigorous imprisonment (RI) for 14 years and was also fined ₹3,000.

Additional sessions court judge MV Deshpande stated in the order that Agarwal was convicted under section 235 of the Criminal Procedure Code for an offence punishable under section 66 (f) of the IT Act and various sections of the Official Secrets Act (OSA).

"The court sentenced Agarwal to life imprisonment and RI for 14 years under the Official Secrets Act and fined him ₹3,000," said Special Public Prosecutor Jyoti Vajani.

Agarwal was granted bail by the Nagpur bench of the Bombay High Court last April.

The case in 2018 created a ripple as it was the first spy scandal that hit Brahmos Aerospace. Agarwal was in touch with suspected Pakistani intelligence operatives through two Facebook accounts -- Neha Sharma and Pooja Ranjan. These accounts, based out of Islamabad, were believed to be run by Pakistan’s intelligence operatives.

Nishant Agarwal was a winner of the Young Scientists award by the Defence Research and Development Organisation and hence his involvement in such an activity shocked his colleagues. He was known as a bright engineer, studied at the National Institute of Technology, Kurukshetra.

Cops who investigated the case said Nishant made himself an easy target by his casual approach on the internet, though he was engaged in highly sensitive work.

he was declared tactically meek by his CO in burma. read it somewhere years ago, will try to find a proper source.

he did prove this point when the 1965 war was horribly executed, for details on that I suggest you read A H Amin's articles.

Agree.
In 1965 it was the airforce that saved our face it else army,s performance was not good overall.

 

[Oscar]

Is there an English version of both? Some of us wouldn't be able to read Urdu.

(civilian issues)

Both would be in English - Ive actually seen BOTH in books and also on old PDF in an article but now have difficulty searching.

 

[Oscar]

Agree.
In 1965 it was the airforce that saved our face it else army,s performance was not good overall.

The airforce actually performed pretty mediocre compared to its plans and capabilities. Read both “Gold Bird” and “Flight of the Falcon”

 

[SecularNationalist]

The airforce actually performed pretty mediocre compared to its plans and capabilities. Read both “Gold Bird” and “Flight of the Falcon”

Oh come on. You don't need any book to establish that fact.
Look at the IAF losses Vs Paf losses that's enough. And the ground damage PAF caused in India.
@Windjammer

 

[S.Y.A]

Both would be in English - Ive actually seen BOTH in books and also on old PDF in an article but now have difficulty searching.

i think ayub khan's CO's remarks are mentioned in shuja nawaz's book crossed swords.

 

[Distant_Observer]

The last FM, amazing presence. When Pakistan was respected.



Our current FM should also receive the same reception in honor of his new title.

 

[Oscar]

The last FM, amazing presence. When Pakistan was respected.



Our current FM should also receive the same reception in honor of his new title.

No. It was when Pakistan had usefulness. Try actually reading what Kissinger or Kennedy thought about Pakistan. Their interest wasn’t respect. It was cold, transactional geopolitics. They used Pakistan when it suited them and discarded it when it didn’t.

As for the Queen, she visited dozens of ex-colonies and irrelevant island nations. If that’s your metric for respect, then you clearly don’t understand how imperial diplomacy works. Being noticed by an empire isn’t an honor. It’s a reminder of your place in the hierarchy.

You’re glorifying Ayub Khan rubbing shoulders with elites, pretending that means Pakistan was powerful. No. It means you were convenient. The same Western elite propped up Zia-ul-Haq, a dictator who tore this country apart. Joanne Herring, the socialite who called Zia a hero, also held charity galas where underage girls were paraded and auctioned off. That’s who you’re aligning with.

And Musharraf? He was “celebrated” like a trained puppet — smiled at, used, and thrown away. His legacy is a mess of failed promises, compromised sovereignty, and civilian blood.

What you’re pushing isn’t national pride. It’s the ignorance of privilege dressed up as nostalgia. Read history, not headlines that suit your personal profit.

 

[Watandar]

The airforce actually performed pretty mediocre compared to its plans and capabilities. Read both “Gold Bird” and “Flight of the Falcon”

Interesting, are these books about 1965 war ? There are indeed quality books written about events or people in Pakistan but are rare and hard to find. Like Ayesha Siddiqa's "Military Inc".

 

[Oscar]

Interesting, are these books about 1965 war ? There are indeed quality books written about events or people in Pakistan but are rare and hard to find. Like Ayesha Siddiqa's "Military Inc".

Yes

 

[El Sidd]

Considered an honorable man himself, FM Khan was highly superstitious and thereby a poor judge of character.

His legacy is unfortunately dictated by his inability to appreciate merit and his gullibility of holding 'traditional' racial bias.

 

[ViperStrike]

Simply put, the "root" of all the evil we witness today—and God only knows for how much longer nation will have to endure it— fundamental wrongs that may never be made right.

 

[Distant_Observer]

No. It was when Pakistan had usefulness. Try actually reading what Kissinger or Kennedy thought about Pakistan. Their interest wasn’t respect. It was cold, transactional geopolitics. They used Pakistan when it suited them and discarded it when it didn’t.

As for the Queen, she visited dozens of ex-colonies and irrelevant island nations. If that’s your metric for respect, then you clearly don’t understand how imperial diplomacy works. Being noticed by an empire isn’t an honor. It’s a reminder of your place in the hierarchy.

You’re glorifying Ayub Khan rubbing shoulders with elites, pretending that means Pakistan was powerful. No. It means you were convenient. The same Western elite propped up Zia-ul-Haq, a dictator who tore this country apart. Joanne Herring, the socialite who called Zia a hero, also held charity galas where underage girls were paraded and auctioned off. That’s who you’re aligning with.

And Musharraf? He was “celebrated” like a trained puppet — smiled at, used, and thrown away. His legacy is a mess of failed promises, compromised sovereignty, and civilian blood.

What you’re pushing isn’t national pride. It’s the ignorance of privilege dressed up as nostalgia. Read history, not headlines that suit your personal profit.

I know my glasses may be rose tinted but when was the last time a Pakistani leader was given a welcome like this in the US?

 

[Oscar]

I know my glasses may be rose tinted but when was the last time a Pakistani leader was given a welcome like this in the US?

When was the last time any leader was given such a welcome in the US?

You are cradling that as some special event?
During the height of the Cold War (roughly 1947 to early 1960s), New York City staged about 130 ticker-tape parades from 1945 to 1965, with more than half of these events greeting visiting heads of state, usually at the request of the U.S. State Department. These parades were often connected to U.S. foreign policy objectives during the Cold War era.

For example, Ngo Dinh Diem, the leader of South Vietnam received a ticker-tape parade in New York City attended by 250,000 people. Ayub Khan barely got 1/10th of that!
Do you see any vietnamese celebrating that? No! they arent colonial jeeves wannabes.

In recent times, no foreign head of state has received a ticker-tape parade in New York City or Washington. The modern use of ticker-tape parades has shifted away from honoring visiting heads of state and is now primarily reserved for military veterans, sports champions, astronauts, and other American heroes.

Benazir has visited inside Kaaba - what is more important then in your opinon?
US ticket tape parade or Allah's house?

What a silly and backward way to look at the world. Disappointing.

 

[Anaa]

even more well documented note on Ayub by his commanding officer when Ayub ran from the frontlines in Burma

Any sane individual would have abandoned his post under those circumstances. They were all in for harvesting crown's fruits , the khans , the Marathas , the gujratis , the Punjabis ,the bhaiyyas you name it .

And I don't see anything wrong with it coz every ethnic faction had a deep resentment about foreigners occupying their native land .