Dalit
Elite Member
Pakistan has no issues providing Gwadar as a naval base to China. In fact, Pakistan has offered it in exchange for a 2nd strike capability according to some sources.
World Bank cancels &500 million dollar loan to Pakistan
- Thread starter koolio
- Start date
Pakistan has no issues providing Gwadar as a naval base to China. In fact, Pakistan has offered it in exchange for a 2nd strike capability according to some sources.
Dalit
Elite Member
Of course. Burden the few allies you have and keep pleading them for more money like an addict. Sounds like a splendid idea.
PrinceofPersia
Registered Member
Chinese are not fools. They saw how Pakistan backstabbed US in Afghanistan even after eating $33B in free US money.
They know Pakistan can backstab China in future and can use the 2nd nuclear strike capability against them so obviously Chinese will not risk giving that nuclear tech. to Pakistan.
They know Loan strangle will give them Gwadar sooner or later.
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Dalit
Elite Member
Agreed. Pakistani leaders are backstabbers, but that is something I have shared a long while ago.
Pakistan would use 2nd strike capability against China? If that is what you meant you are obviously out of your mind.
FYI, China has helped Pakistan enormously with its nuclear program. Before spewing nonsense think about that.
The US and the Pakistani military had a deal in Afghanistan. The Americans paid for services and supply routes. Pakistan didn't eat 33 billion USD as free lunch. 33 billion spread over 20 years and immense economic damage is peanuts. Not to even mention the innocent deaths and duplicitous behaviour of the Americans. It was an incredibly shitty deal for Pakistan. Pakistani generals are mainly responsible for this.
Pakistan and China will continue to work closely irrespective of what anyone thinks or believes.
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PrinceofPersia
Registered Member
Leaders, you mean your political leadership ?. Did they have any say, ever ?.
Today China is your friend, tomorrow it might not.
US nuclear bombed Japan in 1945, today they are allies. Iran and Israel were allies once, today they are arch-enemies.
Iran and Israel: From allies to archenemies, how did they get here?
The 1979 revolution changed their relationship dramatically with Tehran becoming a vocal supporter of Palestinians.
Friends of today, are enemies of tomorrow and vice-versa. Global politics and relationships keep on evolving.
Dalit
Elite Member
Leaders, you mean your political leadership. Do they have any say ?.
Today China is your friend, tomorrow it might not.
US nuclear bombed Japan in 1945, today they are allies. Iran and Israel were allies once, today they are arch-enemies.
Iran and Israel: From allies to archenemies, how did they get here?
The 1979 revolution changed their relationship dramatically with Tehran becoming a vocal supporter of Palestinians.www.aljazeera.com
Friends of today, are enemies of tomorrow and vice-versa. Global politics and relationships keep on evolving.
China will remain Pakistan's friend and ally. You don't worry about that, Indian. You worry about your own country India. Frankly you are irrelevant to this discussion.
Don't use Israel Iran as a template for Pakistan China relations. Different circumstances. Besides, it was your ally USA that backstabbed Iranian Shah. Remember?
Pakistanis understand who is a friend and who is an exploiter. We don't require lecturing from outsiders and especially Indians on this subject matter.
PrinceofPersia
Registered Member
LOL, when Pakistanis cannot prove their point they start abusing, trolling and name calling.
Anyways, not here to fight. Good luck to you. I am out of this discussion now.
Dalit
Elite Member
It is outrageous that you as an irrelevant Indian should tell Pakistan who it should befriend.
Don't you find your own desperation a little over the top?Imagine I came to you and lectured you to befriend person A and ditch person B. Now who the hell am I to tell you to befriend X and ditch Z.
You are actually doing this for an entire country.You sound very desperate and pathetic to me. It is not only you by the way. Other Indian members beg in the same fashion.
All Pakistanis can do is laugh at you lot. If you want to become the FM of Pakistan just ask politely. We might consider your application.
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RealNapster
Elite Member
Will that be sufficient ? Will that be final ? Will it be end of our long term loan programs ? Will it be a start of restructuring and economical growth ?
Answer to all these questions is NO. So why should china bother ?
FuturePAF
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Those that control things are doing fine in the personal lives and live in bubbles. The masses will have to manage on the scraps the elite leave for them. Pakistan isn’t a modern country in the sense of providing adequate social services, it’s more of a 19th century Russian empire like state.
In the late Soviet period they had a joke regarding the two different kinds of currencies, one of trade with the world and one for internal use. “They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work”.
So in Pakistan the equivalent must be that the government pretends to provide services (such as education) and people pretend to pay taxes.
This is a mess of the elites own making, and should the overall economy collapse, it is them to blame. No sense “casting perils at swine” that don’t want to hear reason; no sense serving an oligarchy that is insincere with the public, the world and themselves.
So we the common people aren’t the “you guys”. It would more apt to ask “the elites”. The elites expect the world or circumstance to allow them to kick the can down the road, and if times get tough most of them will flee.
Btw, before anyone says that I too am an overseas Pakistani, I must say my family were farmers, lower middle class, and we left 40 years ago, made it in America because of American meritocracy and rule of law keeping everyone we dealt with in line.
The common people don’t seem to have much of a margin to pay higher taxes for no additional social services benefit. There is little sincerity from the elites to the masses.
This is also why a ground swell of political mobilization doesn’t seem to happen, because if it did it wouldn’t stop at small changes. The system is so imbalanced, that nearly a French Revolution of social changes would change the culture, and the elites can’t afford to allow that to happen. I’m not even talking about the violent aspects, but the purpose people feel in their lives, the way religion is exploited to distract the masses, the petty politics of slow rolling infrastructure development, etc.
But having said all this, it was the French Revolution and the more egalitarian society that came afterwards that made France the power it is today, still the most capable European nation. Pakistan too can take off if it reforms its social contract. The pent up potential is there as that Goldman Sachs analysis pointed out.
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Foreign reserve of India is estimated at around $656.58 bl., The Russia is near to India. as below
List of countries by foreign exchange reserves - Wikipedia
here, to give information on this forum, India might have reduced Foreign Debts of countries like Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh by more than half upto now
this foreign reserve of India listed above is 'after' that payment for these friends. for friends of Asia & Africia, mainly.........
here its worth informing, its Russia which is reducing Foreign Debt of Pakistan. India has also tried with Russia for the same, the news i was given
i heard, the loan is given by India-Russia with interests at per "inflation rate" only, with long time for repayments
.
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kmc_chacko
Registered Member
Business always be a business, nobody does charity without his own interest.
Pakistan yet to reach such an economic position wherein they will have to hand over that port to China as a naval base, as this will anger US and it allies. But, chances are more of leasing it to CMP.
Further, whatever members in this forum may claim, elites in power will never provoke US or its allies as they have more leverage over Pakistan than China presently holds.
unlike US, Chinese are doing investments and expecting good returns and if they don't get what they planned they will find alternative for it like leasing port and use it as refilling or replenishing port for Chinese Navy just like Hambantota port
Dalit
Elite Member
Leasing the port will also piss off the Americans. The Americans are opposed to any kind of activity at Gwadar.
PakFactor
Elite Member
Pakistan is a dead horse the Chinese are forced to carry.
