Z-10 ME/P deliveries Updates: Pakistan Army Aviation.

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

‘Managed to fight to at least a draw’ 6-0 is draw eh O how it pains them to acknowledge that their western ‘battle proven’ jets got merciless battering by the Chinese equivalents that they have dismissed for years. Can you imagine their celebrations if the 6-0 was 0-6?

In the Hindutva mind, each downed jet = one squandered Somnath......

 

[Pak-Warrior]

good share

The most interesting info according to this video is that the reason why only 4
Mi-35 were delivered to PAA by russia is due to indian pressure.

Good for us. I can imagine, the avionics, sensors, weapon accuracy, everything would be subpar. Russian equipment is also difficult to maintain.

BTW, really stupid of Russia to bogged down on Indian pressure. (if its true). We don't know for sure though. Maybe Pakistan itself didn't go for follow up orders. We could have had initial order of 10 to 20 if we were interested. We ordered only 4 initially. I suppose they are exclusively for COIN and that's why we didn't wanted more and needed more sophisticated heli for eastern border.

 

[Ak01]

Good for us. I can imagine, the avionics, sensors, weapon accuracy, everything would be subpar. Russian equipment is also difficult to maintain.

BTW, really stupid of Russia to bogged down on Indian pressure. (if its true). We don't know for sure though. Maybe Pakistan itself didn't go for follow up orders. We could have had initial order of 10 to 20 if we were interested. We ordered only 4 initially. I suppose they are exclusively for COIN and that's why we didn't wanted more and needed more sophisticated heli for eastern border.

they were certainly a gap filler, but the gap wasnt too huge, 20 would have been a serious investment, 4 we can get away without setting up huge support facs etc

 

[Starlord]

In some ways, going slow on purchase of attack helicopters isn't a bad thing. Lots of lessons need to be taken from the Ukraine war.

I think investing in fiber optics and suicide drones will also help, due to the enemy is right next to us unlike Iran/Israel conflict and India has no where near good AD like Israel, so I think these small cheap and fast moving drones can take out or damage critical infrastructure only to be hit hard by big ticket items.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

where is India supposed to find a partner like that, when their homegrown weapons programs keep running into problems while their ambitions keep growing?

Yet only a few months back India bought 156 attack helicopters taking total in service and on order to 310 gunships with production capacity exceeding 30 units a year. Maybe author should pipe down on word-salading .

India has no where near good AD like Israel

India operates a much denser and larger AD network. They rely on Patriots and Iron dome as SAMs while Arrow and David's sling as BMD. Rest of the work is done by USA/UK and others to defend them.

 

[farooqbhai]

Yet only a few months back India bought 156 attack helicopters taking total in service and on order to 310 gunships with production capacity exceeding 30 units a year. Maybe author should pipe down on word-salading .

India operates a much denser and larger AD network. They rely on Patriots and Iron dome as SAMs while Arrow and David's sling as BMD. Rest of the work is done by USA/UK and others to defend them.

Re-IDF.
They have a much dense AD network.
Patriot is phased out since quite a while now. They have well above 20 batteries of Iron Dome as well. Then David Sling batteries in sizeable numbers (around half a dozen plus) and limited numbers of Spyder an Barak-8 Systems. That is of course apart from the Arrow family.
Given there size, the amount of AD is more than enough.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Re-IDF.
They have a much dense AD network.
Patriot is phased out since quite a while now. They have well above 20 batteries of Iron Dome as well. Then David Sling batteries in sizeable numbers (around half a dozen plus) and limited numbers of Spyder an Barak-8 Systems. That is of course apart from the Arrow family.
Given there size, the amount of AD is more than enough.

I know,

Spoiler: longpost

But then IA operates 5 regiments of MR-SAM, 4 Regiments of Akash (2 on order), QR-SAM in limited numbers (11 regiments to be acquired). In SHORADS: 80 9K33 Osa, 180 Kub and 200 9K32 Strela. Multiple regiments of Akash-NG will be acquired soon since trials are complete. Apart from that IA operates a very large number of AAA guns ~2000 and MANPADS.

IAF has 5 squadrons of S-400 (2 to be delivered), 18 squadrons of MR-SAM, 15 squadrons of Akash, 18 Batteries of SPYDER, will be soon acquiring 3 QR-SAM squadrons and in some years 8 squadrons of Kusha (S-400 equivalent). 240 Sudarshan CIWS on order. Apart from MANPADS and unknown numbers of BMD systems. Akash-NG systems to be ordered as well.

With Bhargavastra in testing, will be acquired in large numbers as C-UAS missile defence along with DRDO VSHORADS and VL-SRSAM for point defence.

So yes, Indian AD grid is still dense enough and is going much denser in future.

Although it's offtopic for this thread.

 

[KingQamaR]

As Indian Apache is a heavy attack helicopter and Z-10 is a light attack helicopter gunship hence the worrying difference in firepower for PAF . The Z-10 is more comparable with American Cobra/ Viper. PAF should be really go for the China new Z-21 Heavy Attack Helicopter. A real rival to the American AH-64 Apache?

 

[Great Mal]

As Indian Apache is a heavy attack helicopter and Z-10 is a light attack helicopter gunship hence the worrying difference in firepower for PAF . The Z-10 is more comparable with American Cobra/ Viper. PAF should be really go for the China new Z-21 Heavy Attack Helicopter. A real rival to the American AH-64 Apache?

Indian army has a clear cut plan for its light attack helicopter role they will procure & have on order already their indigenous light attack helicopter.

They will be used in high altitude & plains of Punjab & Rajasthan.

The American Apache is their heavy attack helicopter.

Whilst Pakistan army will likely cap its orders of the Chinese helicopter at 40. Which is a light attack helicopter.

For heavy attack helicopter Pakistan has no plans yet.


So basically going by current trajectory India will have Pakistan beat in the attack helicopter procurement and numbers both in lethality & sheer numbers.

 

[hussain0216]

If Pakistan does go for a heavier attack helicopter it may consider the Turkish option to have access to both eastern and western

 

[Yasser76]

Indian army has a clear cut plan for its light attack helicopter role they will procure & have on order already their indigenous light attack helicopter.

They will be used in high altitude & plains of Punjab & Rajasthan.

The American Apache is their heavy attack helicopter.

Whilst Pakistan army will likely cap its orders of the Chinese helicopter at 40. Which is a light attack helicopter.

For heavy attack helicopter Pakistan has no plans yet.


So basically going by current trajectory India will have Pakistan beat in the attack helicopter procurement and numbers both in lethality & sheer numbers.

We dont need heavy attack choppers to counter their heavy attack choppers

We need things that can kill them. If IAF keeps away from Punjab thanks to PAF, Apache chopper life span will not be measured in days or hours, but in minutes....

 

[hussain0216]

As Indian Apache is a heavy attack helicopter and Z-10 is a light attack helicopter gunship hence the worrying difference in firepower for PAF . The Z-10 is more comparable with American Cobra/ Viper. PAF should be really go for the China new Z-21 Heavy Attack Helicopter. A real rival to the American AH-64 Apache?

I don't think it matters that much anymore

I don't forsee helicopter battles

If anything they seem quite vulnerable, so a decent amount of fast attack helicopters that we can use for COIN, counter drones and maybe target tanks or artillery is more reasonable

 

[KingQamaR]

Indian army has a clear cut plan for its light attack helicopter role they will procure & have on order already their indigenous light attack helicopter.

They will be used in high altitude & plains of Punjab & Rajasthan.

The American Apache is their heavy attack helicopter.

Whilst Pakistan army will likely cap its orders of the Chinese helicopter at 40. Which is a light attack helicopter.

For heavy attack helicopter Pakistan has no plans yet.


So basically going by current trajectory India will have Pakistan beat in the attack helicopter procurement and numbers both in lethality & sheer numbers.

I think the current version of the Z10ME does seem been adopted by Pakistani Army . It seems that Pakistanis Army/ PAF wants an attack helicopter that can perform well in the high altitude battlefield of Kashmir and on Afghan / Baluchistan hot spots ? If Pakistani Army really wanted the Turkey T129 ? But the engines are American and the US WILL deny export permission to Pakistani surely Pakistanis are not this stupid or blind to this real fact . I have serious doubts Z10ME can be operated like the US APACHE a deep strike platform! Obviously Apache can not penetrate deep into defended Pakistani airspace something's Pakistanis Military need to bolster more .

 

[Yasser76]

I think the current version of the Z10ME does seem been adopted by Pakistani Army . It seems that Pakistanis Army/ PAF wants an attack helicopter that can perform well in the high altitude battlefield of Kashmir and on Afghan / Baluchistan hot spots ? If Pakistani Army really wanted the Turkey T129 ? But the engines are American and the US WILL deny export permission to Pakistani surely Pakistanis are not this stupid or blind to this real fact . I have serious doubts Z10ME can be operated like the US APACHE a deep strike platform! Obviously Apache can not penetrate deep into defended Pakistani airspace something's Pakistanis Military need to bolster more .

US attitude to Pak has completely changed on last 3 months

 

[KingQamaR]

I don't think it matters that much anymore

I don't forsee helicopter battles

If anything they seem quite vulnerable, so a decent amount of fast attack helicopters that we can use for COIN, counter drones and maybe target tanks or artillery is more reasonable

The Z-10 does seem agile , has enough fire power and has good range to it too which for its size and role is quite unique. How will it perform against in plains of Pakistani in supporting Pakistani armour vs apaches ?