Pakistan UAVs News & Discussions

[ARMalik]

i

i bet you wont see it, that too for a while.

the reason is simple, the 140hp engine just doesnt cut it.

it didnt cut it for the S2, hence they made an S2 plus or something.

They swapped the 140 out for a 170hp TEI diesel lump. The issue is, i wonder whether that even cuts it...

It gained a few kg, with an mtow of 1600kg vs 1100 of the S2, it will struggle hard without a proper engine. I bet this holdup is the issue here. I know TEI is working on a 220hp version of their PD170, that would be pretty good here.

Just trying to make sense of it here -- why has Pakistan not reached out to the so called all weather Friend CHina, and so called strategic partner Turkey?? Surely they have plenty of drone engines.

 

[Mohid Afzal]

i

i bet you wont see it, that too for a while.

the reason is simple, the 140hp engine just doesnt cut it.

it didnt cut it for the S2, hence they made an S2 plus or something.

They swapped the 140 out for a 170hp TEI diesel lump. The issue is, i wonder whether that even cuts it...

It gained a few kg, with an mtow of 1600kg vs 1100 of the S2, it will struggle hard without a proper engine. I bet this holdup is the issue here. I know TEI is working on a 220hp version of their PD170, that would be pretty good here.

would 300 hp be enough? asking cause the ch-4 has 300 and S3 has near identical specs as ch-4

 

[RAMPAGE]

Just trying to make sense of it here -- why has Pakistan not reached out to the so called all weather Friend CHina, and so called strategic partner Turkey?? Surely they have plenty of drone engines.

Plenty of options around the world.

 

[Sparten]

i think alot of it just comes from the fact that the shahpar 3 promotion was a bit premature, hence all these changes we see now like that fatass intake, they'll need a far higher performance engine really, this thing is gonna be a fat boy

I actually think the engine issues are such they have decided to make it into a Sea bird. Where being underpowered isn't as much an issue over land.

 

[Ali_Baba]

This project is basically our version of Tejas atp

And that is partially good news as it shows that Pakistan is "finally" trying to build stuff at home, and with that, comes significant growing pains unfortunately.

 

[Ak01]

called strategic partner Turkey?

they have- the 170hp shahpar you saw was one based off of the TEI PD170 engine.

But it seems it was more a feasibility exercise as nothing came of it. They instead chose a turbocharged 140hp engine- Potentially the rotax 915iS which has identical performance metrics to whats outlined by gids.

At the end of the day, engines are something you dont wanna skimp on, the tei pd170 is probably great, but its too new and a first foray into the market, the chinese stuff wont sell as well in africa where the Chinese have built a bad name for themselves in some parts of it, but also, the turbocharging of the rotax provides more consistent power, with only a 10hp loss from its rated power at its 23,000ft ceiling, something like the PD170 would lose 3/4% of its rated power output for every 1000ft above sea level.

at the end of the day, its all just a matter of balance and selecting the best out of a bad bunch i feel for the mission set, i think we can all agree the shahpar is woefully underpowered, really, we need a turbine for the larger shahpar's, but again, then costs start becoming silly, you might find yourself paying 3-4m/unit for something like that.

 

[Ak01]

would 300 hp be enough? asking cause the ch-4 has 300 and S3 has near identical specs as ch-4

ch4 uses a 100hp engine iirc

 

[Ak01]

I actually think the engine issues are such they have decided to make it into a Sea bird. Where being underpowered isn't as much an issue over land.

being underpowered is an issue over both, especially in our environment.

imo, they need to not be marketing it yet, its too soon, once things are frozen is when it should be marketed.

but otoh, atleast we can safely say the pn will probably be quite a big adopter of shahpar 2, just need to ensure we can select a decent engine for it

 

[Mohid Afzal]

ch4 uses a 100hp engine iirc

my mistake, I mixed it with another drone but I can't remeber the name of it

 

[Sparten]

being underpowered is an issue over both, especially in our environment.

imo, they need to not be marketing it yet, its too soon, once things are frozen is when it should be marketed.

but otoh, atleast we can safely say the pn will probably be quite a big adopter of shahpar 2, just need to ensure we can select a decent engine for it

Not as much for a sea bird. Especially one chasing subs.

 

[Ak01]

Not as much for a sea bird. Especially one chasing subs.

and whys that

 

[Oscar]

and whys that

Assuming sea level performance which is generally better than any other conditions faced by UAVs(or for that matter engines) in Pakistan.

However, that also forgets that Pakistan coast is a particularly hot climate so cooling would be a concern.

Also, I think you need to highlight for folks here that 100hp isn’t 100hp - that is peak performance at maxed out rpm.

Usually it sits pretty between 95 +\- a few depending on continuous rpms and then factor in ambient conditions.

 

[wifi909]

I mean we must have it, they are making the pictures after all


As much as I like TB2 and wing long etc

We should only buy high end drones like akcini etc

We need to be able to produce our drone requirements at home and ensure we can mass produce FPV drones etc

Pakistan does not need the Akinci, which is an expensive MALE UAV lacking stealth and vulnerable to being shot down. The tasks carried out by these UAVs can be better accomplished by the JF-17s. TB2 and Wing Long are the most suitable for Pakistan.

FPV drones can be used to effectively combat terrorists like TTP. As for India, drawing on the experience of the Russia-Ukraine war, you need to prepare fiber optic drones that can be used in EW.

 

[Ak01]

Assuming sea level performance which is generally better than any other conditions faced by UAVs(or for that matter engines) in Pakistan.

i feel like im being dense, are you suggesting performance would be better due to it flying lower? If so, then yeah fair enough, however, i think at the end of the day once we factor in density altitude etc etc performance will be meh in the end regardless

Also, I think you need to highlight for folks here that 100hp isn’t 100hp - that is peak performance at maxed out rpm.

yeah, thats why they ended up with a turbocharged solution, keeps manifold pressure high enough to the point where you have more consistent output

 

[Oscar]

i feel like im being dense, are you suggesting performance would be better due to it flying lower? If so, then yeah fair enough, however, i think at the end of the day once we factor in density altitude etc etc performance will be meh in the end regardless

yeah, thats why they ended up with a turbocharged solution, keeps manifold pressure high enough to the point where you have more consistent output

No - Im suggesting that in general performance is better from an overall profile as we calculate based on sea level.
After all me taking my warrior out from Houston even in July was a smoother experience even with slugglish climb to me doing it at 6k msl in turbulent air where I have to remember if I wrote a will or not everytime.