Royal Saudi Arabia Armed forces

Would be quite something if MbS could somehow negotiate a deal with Trump and get the F-35, even more so a special/upgraded version for KSA like our F-15's.

With the visit to the White House confirmed and now official there might be some truth in KSA getting the F-35. Just the second regional country after Israel.

This probably also means that the visit is quite strategic in nature and related to huge business deals, recent strategic AI deals signed and huge investments within KSA (NVDIA, META, GOOGLE etc.), renewables (KSA has the cheapest solar and wind energy in the world officially going by the recent projects and official data), military and nuclear energy. After all it has been long in the making. 7 years with no official US visits.

I hope that we will see tangible and promising results on all fronts but I will wait for a official confirmation.

Could very well be false rumors. Until I see the F-35SA delivered to KSA I will remain skeptical. In particular given the stronghold of the Zionist/Jewish lobby in the US.

The likes of Kushner will not be an obstacle but rather the likes of Levin etc.

Jerusalem Post today:

Israel must carefully consider how to preserve its role within the US-Saudi 'triangle' - opinion​

Saudi Arabia is a key state, because of its political, religious, and economic weight, as well as its centrality to the Iranian and Palestinian issues.



US selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia endangers Abraham Accords expansion - analysis​


The Trump administration might sell F-35s to Saudi Arabia without Riyadh agreeing to recognise Jerusalem, in a move that could shake up the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia's request to buy F-35 jets clears key Pentagon hurdle, sources say​

Until now, Israel remains the only Middle Eastern country to operate F-35s, but Saudi Arabia is the largest customer for US arms sales.



Not checked other Israeli media but looking at my Twitter feed (both Arabic and English), there seems to be a lot of Jewish frustration about this news.

Which I would consider as positive news for KSA because that might actually mean that something tangible will occur in 13 days time.

Exciting times ahead anyways as usual when talking about KSA!

@The SC
 
All Israeli tech has and American equivalent, don't fool yourself..Israeli tech is based on US tech..
and what tech us is based on? some yes base on us tech some is our inovation if you look at south korea she bouth blue print of submerine from germany and got alot of help in there development in the kf from some country in the world
 
Their own..they are the most advanced country in R&D..
Your Question is not a smart one!
israel develop there own tech also usa get help from other companies like bae
 
israel develop there own tech also usa get help from other companies like bae
All your military tech derives from US/Western tech. What key military tech have you fully created by yourself?

At most some derivatives and versions of tech already created.

This is the case for almost every single local military industry of every country out there but nevertheless we hear a lot about overinflated "indigenous" Israeli military tech which in reality are just derivatives of existing US/Western tech. Moreover often funded directly by Western money and co-created with Western arms companies.

Anyway the Israeli startup scene is impressive on many fronts but it helps being this closely aligned with the US and getting free money and all the political support you need.

News Article

Trump Ally Gets F-35 Boost From Pentagon


PUBLISHED

NOV 05, 2025 AT 10:54 AM EST

Amira El-Fekki‎

By Amira El-Fekki‎
Middle East Reporter

The Trump administration is weighing Saudi Arabia’s request to purchase F-35 fighter jets, a potential deal that has reportedly cleared a key Pentagon hurdle, sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

The Trump administration has mounted a major push for deeper Gulf security partnerships, through arms sales and an expanded U.S. military presence. The White House recently signaled a new security initiative with Qatar, and Riyadh is understood to be eyeing a similar framework with Washington.

Newsweek has contacted the U.S. Defense Department for comment.

Why It Matters​

The kingdom has requested up to 48 F‑35 jets, but the deal had been stalling amid Washington’s reluctance because of its policy of maintaining Israel’s qualitative military edge and concerns about regional partners’ ties to strategic rivals.

The F-35 incorporates stealth technology that allows it to evade enemy detection and is considered to be one of the world's most advanced fighter aircraft.

The recent move comes ahead of a U.S. visit this month by Crown PrinceMohamed bin Salman, an ally and "friend" of President Donald Trump. Saudi Arabia was Trump's destination in May on the first overseas trip of his second term and the two leaders signed an historic $142 billion arms deal that, according to the White House, is the largest defense sales agreement in history.

AP25295518685616.jpg

President Donald Trump and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman meet at the Royal Palace in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on May 13, 2025. | Alex Brandon, File/AP Photo

What To Know​


U.S. officials told Reuters on Wednesday, on condition of anonymity, that the F-35 deal is moving through the system and has now reached Secretary of Defense level, after the Pentagon’s policy office reviewed the potential transaction for months.

Under the Biden administration, F‑35 sales to Gulf states have been tied to the Abraham Accords and broader normalization of relations with Israel. The United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Bahrain signed the accords in 2020.

The UAE broadened diplomatic, cultural and economic ties with Israel in the years that followed, developing faster than the first Arab states to sign peace treaties with Israel—Egypt and Jordan—in the 1970s. Still, an F‑35 deal with the UAE did not materialize, and amid continued U.S. review and policy constraints, the UAE eventually withdrew its purchase request.

Saudi Arabia has long been seen as the next major potential candidate to sign the Abraham Accords, but the kingdom has been reluctant to put pen to paper as long as a negotiated solution for Palestine remains unresolved. Riyadh has actively pushed for the recognition of a Palestinian state and successfully advanced the agenda at the United Nations alongside France in the aftermath of the Gaza war.

What People Are Saying​

A military and defense blogger using the account handle @SMmiliitary wrote in Arabic on X on Wednesday: "If Saudi Arabia acquires 48 F‑35s, the entire balance of power in the Middle East would be reshaped. Soon, talk of Israeli superiority will become a thing of the past; this deal would plague the haters if it went through."

President Donald Trump said told FOX Business' Maria Bartiromo on October 17, speaking of the Abraham Accords: "I hope to see Saudi Arabia go in and I hope to see others go in. I think when Saudi Arabia goes in everybody goes in."

Brian Katulis, senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, wrote in an analysis on October 27: "Trump 2.0’s inclination toward an 'America First' unilateralism can be seen in how it has managed most key relationships across the world, particularly in Europe and the Western Hemisphere. But that tendency has seemingly been more muted and less present in its approach to the Middle East, a region that is higher on the priority list for Trump’s national security agenda than it was during the opening months of the preceding US administration."

What Happens Next​

Sources say the deal still requires Cabinet approvals, presidential sign-off, and congressional notification before receiving the ultimate green light. The Saudi leader is expected to visit the U.S. on November 18 and meet with Trump at the White House.


Would be absolutely hilarious if we would get the F-35 before UAE and without signing the Abraham Accords.
 
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If the order of 48 F-35 (SA potentially) would be genuine and go trough, I hope this will be a first order with more F-35 (SA) to follow afterwards.

48 is a far too small number considering the huge size of KSA and geographical challenges.

UAE initially ordered 50 F-35 if I recall and UAE is around 25 times smaller than KSA with almost 30 times the smaller native population.

I would love to see at least 100 F-35 (if not more) and for KSA to become a key hub for F-35 maintenance in the region long-term.

This would also give a huge lift for the local aviation industry within KSA and could serve as a springboard for later local or foreign joint-projects such as GCAP, KAAN etc.

KSA has a large familiarity with US weapon systems already and with the F-15's in terms of maintenance, assembly and producing spare parts locally.

That would be my modus operandi at least. Obviously if this deal goes through it will change the regional landscape military wise.
 
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Lokchead Martin CEO speaking about KSA and the regional headquarter that they have set up in KSA:

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Now everything makes more sense if you look at the wider picture

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Great news.
 
They won’t be sold the original missile with capabilities of reaching 3000km, but instead a refined version with a shorter range


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They won’t be sold the original missile with capabilities of reaching 3000km, but instead a refined version with a shorter range


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The source of that is what? Your empty claim? Nowhere in your tweet does it say what you claim.

Name one thing that KSA has which was "downgraded", on the contrary it was made specifically for the needs of KSA and better than the original one. A good example is the F-15SA.

Another is THAAD and Patriots. No "weaker" versions anywhere to be found.

As far as missiles go, KSA has many ballistic missiles with a much longer reach courtesy of local minds and China.
 
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The mixed exercise maneuvers "Quincy-1" have commenced between the Saudi Arabian army and its American counterpart at Fort Irwin Military Base (California), to enhance operational readiness, exchange expertise, and integrate in executing joint operations in diverse combat environments.

Joint Saudi Arabian and Chinese military exercise in Eastern Province:

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M829 DU shell - the hidden spear of Saudi and Kuwaiti Abrams tanks

In a world where military superiority is measured by a shield's resilience and a projectile's penetrating ability, the M829 APFSDS-T stands out as a symbol of technical superiority and a weapon given only to those closest to them.

It is a rare depleted uranium (Depleted Uranium) ammunition subject to strict US export restrictions, licensed only to allies that Washington trusts can preserve this unique technology.

When this missile entered the arsenals of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the State of Kuwait, it was not just a passing military deal, but a clear indication of the depth of the strategic alliance and the two countries' position within the circle of reliable allies. This ammunition gave the Saudi and Kuwaiti M1A2 Abrams tanks a firepower comparable to their counterparts in the US Army, standing among the armored forces capable of imposing dominance on any field of confrontation.

It is not an ordinary shell, but a silent message of deterrence that sums up years of development and secrecy, and practically translates into superiority at a moment when no second chance is given.

The APFSDS-T M829 shell was born out of a clear, uncourtesy military need. How does a modern tank encounter advanced armor specifically designed to withstand a medium weapon? The answer came in the form of a densely mounted longitudinal projectile, a core made of high-density material driven by elaborate ballistic engineering, and a flagellum that dislodges to allow the rod to fly toward its target without additional resistance.

APFSDS-T (Armor-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot - Tracer) - M829 APFSDS-T Rod Kinetic Energy (Kinetic-Energy) Shell. The idea is based on a thin, high-density rod that is fired at high speeds after the sapot (sabot) is abandoned when exiting the pipe, so the penile nucleus flies straight towards the shield while maintaining its focused kinetic energy. The design balances mass and speed for maximum practical penetration depth, while the Tracer element provides a visual impact for trajectory tracking and injury assessment.

The development of the M829 series came through decades of research and testing, involving leading American defense companies, led by companies such as Alliant Techsystems (ATK), which later became part of major entities such as Orbital ATK and Northrop Grumman, while other companies played a role in manufacturing sapote components, caps, and accessories such as General Dynamics and multiple industrial partners. The series has seen successive updates up to version (M829A4), which combines physical and ballistic improvements and supply components for greater accuracy and penetration.

This series is not the product of just one manufacturer, but rather an integrated industrial supply system that combines projectile design, uranium alloy processing, and the manufacture of sabut and accessories to ensure compatibility with the M256 gun and required combat specifications.

At the material level, the core of the M829 consists of a dense thermal rod made of purified uranium (DU) that is characterized by high density and unique mechanical behavior under high shocks, this rod is surrounded by a spout that allows it to withstand inside the gun barrel and a clean exit from the nozzle, while the external and supporting parts are made of composite aluminum alloys and treated materials to withstand ballistic pressures.

The field importance of this combination lies in the fact that the DU rod not only penetrates the shield but also maintains the sharpness of the penetration section as it crosses the plates, enabling it to achieve greater penetration depth and stronger internal effect. In practice, this means that a single intact shot could take an entire combat platform off the battlefield, or turn enemy tanks into a logistical and field burden that cannot be ignored.

1762743714388.jpeg

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The M829 cannot be talked about in isolation from the cannon that was prepared for it, because the cannon and ammunition are an integrated unit. The M256, an American installation based primarily on the German Rheinmetall Rh-120 gun with an L/44 barrel length, gives the projectile sufficient acceleration time inside the barrel to exit at a constant and effective nozzle speed.

The length of the barrel is a practical factor, as increasing the length means a longer time for the projectile to accelerate under the influence of charge, and thus the possibility of generating a higher nozzle speed without the need for an excessive increase in pressure. However, the possibility of increasing the speed depends on strict geometric limits. The maximum stresses on the spout are borne by the inner casing of the pipe, and there are risks of dynamic stress that may lead to spout fragmentation or damage to the inner cylinder. Therefore, any modification in the projectile design must respect the ballistic limits of this structure.

In the course of my work, the M829 series has adjusted the balance so that the longitudinal rod and its spout work efficiently with the thrust charge designed to make the M256, and this integration is the secret to achieving true and consistent penetrating performance that is not subject to theoretical tests alone.

1762743842483.jpeg

The simple mathematical equation for the kinetic energy of a projectile puts velocity at the forefront in terms of impact, but practical application in the design of penetrating projectiles reveals greater complexity: velocity is affected by a quadratic force, mass is affected linearly, but the behavior of the material and how energy is distributed during the collision are the decisive item. So, in a long projectile design, it is not enough to pursue speed alone, because increasing speed by reducing the mass of the rod or changing the Verhältnis L/D may be counterproductive upon impact.

Developments in the M829 series have tended to balance these factors: maintaining a high enough nozzle speed while at the same time increasing the mass and length of the rod in some versions (particularly A3 and A4) to ensure greater overall power and better penetrating behavior upon impact with multi-layer armor and ERA. This design approach reflects a practical understanding: preferring actual penetrability over impressive speed numbers that could be deceptive if not translated into resistance to deformation during collision.

1762744392580.png

Self-sharpening and materials Why the DU rod excels at penetration

The difference between one material and another at the moment of impact is what determines the practical result of two hundred milliseconds of friction and shear. The DU rod exhibits a behavior known in the technical literature as self-sharpening or self-sharpening upon impact, the outer layers splitting in such a way that the tip maintains its sharpness rather than bulging or flattening that leads to energy (scattering) and loss of permeability. This behavior ensures that energy is directed toward penetrating the shield rather than being wasted distorting the projectile material itself.

The direct field result is that a DU projectile is capable of achieving greater penetration depth at the same nozzle speed than a projectile of other materials or achieving similar performance at a lower speed if the rod is designed to be longer and heavier. Therefore, a tactical design that increases mass and accepts a slight drop in speed often results in a better penetrating result than a design that has to increase speed to compensate for a less efficient material. This difference in practical energy utilization makes DU a strategic choice in situations where results are measured by the price of field presence rather than by theoretical numbers on paper.

1762744521654.jpeg

The difference between DU and tungsten is not just a difference in numbers, but a difference in behavior at the shadow of the collision.In common tests, comparisons and operational models, DU shows a practical superiority in penetration depth of approximately 10-20% under standard conditions when comparing rods of almost identical dimensions.

This does not mean that tungsten is ineffective, tungsten alloys have evolved a lot and provide good results in many cases, but the self-sharpening behavior of uranium keeps the projectile head sharp and increases the conversion of energy into actual penetration rather than distortion.

In addition, friction and shear contribute to the generation of sparks and heat when the DU rod collides with the shield, which may ignite stocks inside the target vehicle (fuel or ammunition) and maximize lethality after penetration. The downside is the environmental and political cost of DU residues, which necessitate health and environmental concerns, leaving their use and export subject to strict restrictions and control policies. But from the perspective of pure combat capability, having DU ammunition in a country's stockpile gives practical and direct superiority on the battlefield.

1762744601645.jpeg

At the moment of decision on the armored front line, it is not enough to have an advanced combat platform, but you must have the bullet that turns that platform into an actual cutter of military toil.

The M829 DU shell is not just technical ammunition, it is a declaration of military and political power that places its holder on a new regional accounting table.

When Saudi and Kuwaiti M1A2 tanks place this bullet in their convoys, they not only update their ammunition stocks, but also give their systems a real parity in firepower with American models, and send a clear message of deterrence to anyone who is burdened by the idea of confrontation. In the end, victory in armored battles may actually be decided with the blink of an eye, and owning the M829 makes that blink in favor of whoever owns it.
 
Continued..

SAMI has a license to produce the M829 and M1028 projectiles,

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NCMS also obtained a license from KNDS to produce the French (DU) SHARD projectile

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