JF-17 PFX program

Deino said:
The point is still, there IS - present tense - co-production of JF-17 with any Turkish company regardless its Kamla or Kamra!

It's pure BS!
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Its a language joke lmao
 
Michael said:
His real identity is that of a Taiwanese internet troll, commonly known as a "1450". You don't need to pay attention to him; just wait for the administrators to handle it.

1450 Internet army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Ignore this guy. If I'm not mistaken, he was an extreme nationalist idiot back in the old PDF forums.
而且还是那种速胜转速败的人
 
Pakistanithinktank said:
It’s like building a new plane. All of those upgrades might be possible in the next block.

Pakistan’s air force has been steadily upgrading its fleet to keep pace with modern threats. The JF‑17 Block III was a big step forward, an affordable, locally produced, and equipped with advanced radar and weapons. But as a lightweight fighter, it couldn’t match the range or power of heavier jets.

That’s why Pakistan bought J‑10C, a more capable aircraft with stronger radar and better combat performance. Even so, the J‑10C isn’t stealthy and has its own limits.

To prepare for the future, Pakistan is now moving toward fifth generation fighters. The J‑35 offers stealth and advanced sensors, while participation in Turkey’s KAAN project shows Pakistan’s intent to eventually build its own cutting edge jets.

Each step from JF‑17, J‑10C, J‑35, and KAAN reflects Pakistan’s strategy of filling gaps, learning from limitations, and building toward independence in advanced fighter production.
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The PFX will definitely have to be a clean sheet design. The JF-17 has reached the limits of its design. The question now remains if the PFX will use the RD-93/WS-13/WS-19 OR the WS-10B engine (144 kn). I hope they go with the WS-10B. Even if Pakistan gets access to that design, focusing on a single engine fighter at 70-75% the weight of the F-35A would make it a competitive aircraft. Enough space to house larger and more modern missiles internally, focused on A2A, but with enough space (in a single central bay) to house decently sized A2G munitions, while not going for an exquisitely “cutting edge” and costly platform.
 
FuturePAF said:
The PFX will definitely have to be a clean sheet design. The JF-17 has reached the limits of its design. The question now remains if the PFX will use the RD-93/WS-13/WS-19 OR the WS-10B engine (144 kn). I hope they go with the WS-10B. Even if Pakistan gets access to that design, focusing on a single engine fighter at 70-75% the weight of the F-35A would make it a competitive aircraft. Enough space to house larger and more modern missiles internally, focused on A2A, but with enough space (in a single central bay) to house decently sized A2G munitions, while not going for an exquisitely “cutting edge” and costly platform.
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That’s a good dream but to achieve it, Pakistan will have to invest billions in Aircraft industry. With Economy on ventilator, and looters are governing, it’s almost impossible unless GCC countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain are willing to invest in it.
 
Pakistanithinktank said:
That’s a good dream but to achieve it, Pakistan will have to invest billions in Aircraft industry. With Economy on ventilator, and looters are governing, it’s almost impossible unless GCC countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain are willing to invest in it.
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That’s probably what PAC is hopeful of; GCC funding.
 
FuturePAF said:
The PFX will definitely have to be a clean sheet design. The JF-17 has reached the limits of its design. The question now remains if the PFX will use the RD-93/WS-13/WS-19 OR the WS-10B engine (144 kn). I hope they go with the WS-10B. Even if Pakistan gets access to that design, focusing on a single engine fighter at 70-75% the weight of the F-35A would make it a competitive aircraft. Enough space to house larger and more modern missiles internally, focused on A2A, but with enough space (in a single central bay) to house decently sized A2G munitions, while not going for an exquisitely “cutting edge” and costly platform.
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Since we're having wishful thoughts, I'd prefer to see a single WS-15 variant powering the PFX. A more robust engine with ample amount of thrust (160kn) and plenty of juice for avionics, etc. The PFX could be a beast.
 
Pioneer said:
January 2025. Türkiye and Pakistan jointly produce JF-17 in Kamla. Türkiye can make KAAN. Why collaborate with Pakistan to produce JF-17? What are they looking for?
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So not knocking kaan becoming hope it success as much as if not more than jf 17 but I think the simple answer is jf 17 is a proven aircraft while the kaan if everything goes right still needs several more years of testing than mass production and would need many partners or buyers to make it successful
 
Khanivore said:
Since we're having wishful thoughts, I'd prefer to see a single WS-15 variant powering the PFX. A more robust engine with ample amount of thrust (160kn) and plenty of juice for avionics, etc. The PFX could be a beast.
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I’d like to think I’m making realistic wish’s, considering it’s probably gonna get Saudi funding and they will ask for a fighter they will be allowed to at least partially build in country, while fulfilling the missions they would have wanted the F-35 to fill, without being seen in the Chinese camp by purchasing the J-35A.

Considering the PFX design seems to draw much inspiration from the McDonnell Douglas JAST, which was originally planning to use the F-119 engine, with its 156 kn max thrust, seeking a now “second string” engine with close thrust could allow PAC/CAC to build a program the Saudis would be willing to fund.

The PAF, having flown both the JF-17 and J-10CE, know what they will need in a next gen platform.

Also, China maybe reluctant to share cutting edge WS-19 tech, but maybe more comfortable with sharing WS-10 technology, possibly even license production.
 
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ignoring the above speculation,

i think its becoming increasingly clear the PAF is going to need a proper twin seater if it wishes to get behind the loyal wingman trend.

The J-10 cant do the job, pilot workload would be significant

The JF-17 i fear may just not be able to have space for all the additional kit required, plus, youd probably be looking at a cockpit redesign, plus with little fuel capacity and whatnot, its not an ideal solution

Unless the Chinese come up with a twin seat J-35, which i guess isnt unlikely but isnt the most optimal solution (maintenance intensive, high cost, high cpfh, more sensitive etc)

i do feel like if the PAF had an option, it would want some sino flankers... I wonder if theres ANY way in the world the PAF can get their hands on them...

the Russian MiG 35 offer to Pakistan was effectively like, heres an airframe, customise it as you wish.

With Russia tied up in Ukraine, i do wonder, if there was a genuine solid push from Pak, could Russia grant China licenses to export something to Pakistan...

Because even now, i wonder whether the PAF would buy new F-16's, or would the PAF make a push for F-15s or 18's instead if the US option was on the table.

Typhoons i guess are the PAF's only real option, but the issue is of the restrictions that would come with, particularly when it comes to a strike focused, LwM config, not many countries would want to get behind that as theres a real risk of nuclear wpn carriage.

I just think, the PAF, if serious about the next gen, may need to switch over its procurement priorities and start looking for something heavier and better suited for being a node in a larger combat system, or rather, something capable of handling command and control. The issue with a JF-17XL is China is much more interested in the bigger fish, will they want to dedicate resources to a project that isnt going to be massively commercially viable? On top of that, will the PAF even be able to afford it? etc etc. I do wonder what the PAF is thinking on this front, it needs something on this front

@puttputt @Oscar
 
Ak01 said:
ignoring the above speculation,

i think its becoming increasingly clear the PAF is going to need a proper twin seater if it wishes to get behind the loyal wingman trend.

The J-10 cant do the job, pilot workload would be significant

The JF-17 i fear may just not be able to have space for all the additional kit required, plus, youd probably be looking at a cockpit redesign, plus with little fuel capacity and whatnot, its not an ideal solution

Unless the Chinese come up with a twin seat J-35, which i guess isnt unlikely but isnt the most optimal solution (maintenance intensive, high cost, high cpfh, more sensitive etc)

i do feel like if the PAF had an option, it would want some sino flankers... I wonder if theres ANY way in the world the PAF can get their hands on them...

the Russian MiG 35 offer to Pakistan was effectively like, heres an airframe, customise it as you wish.

With Russia tied up in Ukraine, i do wonder, if there was a genuine solid push from Pak, could Russia grant China licenses to export something to Pakistan...

Because even now, i wonder whether the PAF would buy new F-16's, or would the PAF make a push for F-15s or 18's instead if the US option was on the table.

Typhoons i guess are the PAF's only real option, but the issue is of the restrictions that would come with, particularly when it comes to a strike focused, LwM config, not many countries would want to get behind that as theres a real risk of nuclear wpn carriage.

I just think, the PAF, if serious about the next gen, may need to switch over its procurement priorities and start looking for something heavier and better suited for being a node in a larger combat system, or rather, something capable of handling command and control. The issue with a JF-17XL is China is much more interested in the bigger fish, will they want to dedicate resources to a project that isnt going to be massively commercially viable? On top of that, will the PAF even be able to afford it? etc etc. I do wonder what the PAF is thinking on this front, it needs something on this front

@puttputt @Oscar
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AFAIK - the sino-russian agreement on the flanker is tied to their general relationship. But would it work now?
Technically, China is stuck with the global mood against Russia but also has an opportunity to become a sino-flanker supply for Russia - my assumption is Russia cannot churn out enough Su-35s or 57s and needs to augment its numbers.

But if there may be experts on this relationship it would be @Deino or @Michael
 
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